AIBU to be angry at old "friends"

[PaulHollywoodsSexGut]

It's pointless to say "please be kind" in AIBU but here goes...

I have recently realised that one of my friends is annoyed with me as she feels that I'm not understanding what she's going through as her and her DH are away to start IVF, and the questions I'm asking & the things I am saying are "really stupid". Example: she starts IVF this month after a few false starts past two years. I've said things along the lines of "I'm excited for you".

Another friend of mine who is agonising over whether to start IVF or not took a chunk out of me over Christmas as I said I didn't know what day it was (on the 28th). This is because I'm "not working" (I am on mat leave) and she doesn't need "another reminder"" of "her lot".

CONTEXT: Of the friends I have had past 10 years I am the only one who has had children without fertility issues. I had a mc in Aug 2016 and not one of those friends had anything supportive to say. This I completely let slide, after all, I conceived and I don't want that to be rammed in their faces, even if it didn't work out for me that time.

Whilst i cannot at all claim to understand the pain of infertility and the IVF/adoption process, I feel that I'm losing my old friends right left and centre as - quite frankly - I have had my children "easily" and they have not (quote unquote yet another friend I know who is experiencing fertility issues).

I am 33 and I had to make certain choices fast to ensure I had a crack at getting the family I wanted so much. I know how very lucky I am that this worked out for me. Marriage, babies and a house move happened in very rapid succession but all for the good.

AIBU to now feel angry at being deserted by my old friends because of the obvious anger they are showing to me about my having a family and being "a SAHM" (I'm not - two maternity leaves one after the other)? Has this happened to any of you and how did you handle it without going "FUCK YOU ALL" because you've exhausted all of your sympathy and support reserves and tried to take an active and supportive interest in what they are going though only to have it thrown back again and again?

I can never EVER claim to know what the pain of infertility feels like. EVER. It consumes folk and being a veteran of the TTC boards myself I have looked through that window. It's like every damned thing I say is stepping on a landmine and I'm not thick, I'm not going on and on about my darling children nor slagging them off for not sleeping etc.

I am just so fucking fed up of trying to be a friend and getting pushed away as I literally "don't know what it's like".

HELP.

The thing is, these people are meant to be friends. You don't have to keep in touch with them if they're horrible to you (and they are.) It's a voluntary relationship.

I think life is much better if we avoid people who are nasty to us. I feel for them if they're struggling to conceive, but that doesn't give them licence to treat you like that.

I think it's time to find yourself some new friends, OP.

Oh dear, poor you. I had my son by IVF (which worked first time, thankfully) but I had the same sort of responses from “friends” who it took/was taking much longer for. One of them sadly stopped speaking to me because they couldn’t stand seeing me pregnant and felt it “wasn’t fair” as she’d been at it longer.

YANBU, but you can’t change how people feel. They’re simply taking their sadness and frustration out on you. It’s up to you whether you’re willing to put up with it.

Wow. That's odd. So you have lots of friends with fertility issues and all of them have fallen out with you? Has it occurred to you perhaps it's more to do with you than them?

I can understand the odd woman with fertility treatment being off about it. But all of them? For no reason? Really?

Amongst the friends I’ve had for the past decade I am the anomaly in that I’ve nit had IVF. It’s the gospel truth.

Not EVERY person I know that’s had fertility challenges has been shitty, but the closest ones, yes.

I’ve also done what I can do avoid asking genuinely stupid questions or making stupid statements (“just relax & it’ll happen” etc).

It’s hard when folk you used to be so tight with round on you for something that’s not your fault. It’s nobodys fault.

I had a similar issue with a friend of mine. She suffered an ectopic pregnancy and found out the cause was severe polycystic ovaries and endometriosis and was advised she wouldn’t be able to naturally conceive and was advised they’d need IVF.
Around the same time myself, her sister and another one of our friends all found out we were unexpectedly pregnant. All unplanned, all of us a bit panicky about our pregnancies.
For some reason she singled me out and not only avoided me during the first 6 months of my pregnant but was saying mean things about me to everyone.
She was incredibly jealous and hurt that I was having a baby and she couldn’t. Her sister was exempt from her wrath as she was making her an aunt, and other friend was spared because she isn’t a close friend.
I was so hurt by it all. It took a very very long time for us to recover from the way she behaved and a lot of forgiveness on my part as she has admitted it was due to her feeling jealousy and grief she couldn’t control - mixed with the cocktail of hormones she was being pumped with during the IVF process.

It only really died down when I was having my 2nd and she was pregnant with her 1st baby. At this point my DC1 was 4, so it really did take a long time for our friendship to recover. But it did recover, she apologised and I gained empathy and understanding for her struggles and mindset at the time.

IVF is not exciting, it is invasive, painful and stressful. It is also unlikely to be successful especially on a first attempt. I knew my sil was being nice when she said how excited she was for us just before our second ivf attempt so I just smiled. I vented to my partner privately later.

Before I started ivf I had no idea what was involved so I am not having a go at you just explaining how I felt. IVF is emotive so I think all I would say to a friend is I’m here if you want to talk and I hope it works for you.

I had timers set on my phone for daily injections, appointments, pessaries and drugs so was not keen on explaining the process as it felt all consuming.

Sorry I posted too soon...
What I was going to say is you don’t have to be around them if they’re going to take it out on you, take a step away from them. If it is a friendship worth having then it’ll all come back around.
I can only imagine the pain and jealousy people must feel seeing someone have so easily what they wish they could have.
However, you don’t have to be the whipping boy for their emotions.
Next time you are snapped at call them out on it

Having fertility issues is not an excuse for being unkind to anyone, let alone your friends.

Infertility is very painful and difficult but you can’t expect the world to stop turning.

Ive not had the easiest time falling and staying pregnant. And it looks like I’m now starting early menopause. I have let some friendships drift.

Never because of jealously but because notmanlly because people have been so insentivite it’s hard to stay close ( asking me to be birth partner when we had the same due date while I was still miscarrying my own pregnancy being the worse). It is possible you’ve misjudged how to react to your friends suituation.

However from what you’ve written they’ve been quite unfairly hostile. Sometimes when lives take different paths friendships just can’t survive.

I've had fertility issues and know a lot of other women who have through forums and clinics. Although there is the odd woman who just can't deal with people being pregnant generally if they had an issue with a friend with children there was a reason why. And if all of them feel this way you might want to think about it.

General gripes were constantly going on about their children and being disinterested in anything non-child related. Complaining about how hard it is being a parent. Tactless comments.

The only thing I've got to go on in your original post is that you responded to your friend's IVF news with 'how exciting'.

It's not exciting. At all. A holiday is exciting. A new job is exciting. IVF isn't. It's daunting, painful and arduous and there is no guarantee it will work. Given your friend has probably already been through multiple unsuccessful treatments to get to IVF and this may well be her last throw of the dice excited is probably the last thing she is feeling.

It sounds like you might not have a lot of insight into their situations and feelings so are inadvertently sticking your size sixes in it.

A better way to communicate about it might be to ask things like 'how are you feeling about it', 'how can I support you'. Because you seem to be mistepping a bit because you don't really know how it feels. That might be an issue for them.

I have 3 friends doing different types of fertility treatment. I am fairly sure 2 of them would not recognise the people they have become presumably from the hormones and the stress). I have had to create an "open door" distance. I am here and happy to talk through things with them, which I tell them. But I don't seek them out right now. I politely acknowledge things like new years, birthdays with queries about work situations, partnerss and such. But I don't ask them round, ask about treatment unless they raise it. I don't really offer them info about me or allow them to be someone I am relying on for anything. I hope the people I knew will reemerge to some extent. It seems that some, much like some pregnant women, become very focused on themselves. I honestly think this is hormonal. Perhaps to ensure genetic continuation. Humans are not as sepearate from other animals as we like to believe, after all.

If it was one friend I'd say its them. But multiple? More likely it's you really, isn't it? You may think you're being sensitive etc, but if several people are saying you aren't I'd check again.

Shiney that’s exactly how I handled it with my friend. I didn’t cut her off or even obviously distance myself from her, I let her do it. She knew where I was if she wanted me.
It still hurt me though.
I think people forget about other people and can become very selfish when grief is involved. It’s probably a self-preservation tactic, but it’s horrible for those who become the focus of their irrational anger.
My first pregnancy was blighted by my friend’s jealousy, at what should have been a happy time I was sad, confused and hurt by her behaviour. That is something I’ll never get back and it took a while to forgive her for that.
Thankfully she’s back to being a lovely, sane, homornally stable woman who I adore

It probably isn’t all the friends feeling exactly the same way about it, it’s more likely that OP tends to think of them as a group.

It’s like when I think “all my friends with children do X” when it’s not all of them, just a couple in short succession.

OP, you could be the most lovely sympathetic friend in the world but it doesn’t matter because you can’t give them a baby. And your babies will sometimes feel like a slap in the face.

But if there are comments about you being a SAHM it’s okay to say, “that’s not quite right, I’m not”. And if they say you can’t know real loss you can say “I’ve been forunate but I have had a loss too”.

If they brush that off then their focus on their own disappointment has made them cruel and lacking in compassion. That’s very sad, but it’s also not about you. Do your best to be kind to them but don’t take blatant shit from them.

I suppose your friends are taking the pain and frustration of infertility out on you but it's not on is it? Calling you stupid is uncalled for. You do actually sound interested and sympathetic.

I think they're being very precious and self absorbed. I'm sure your own life isn't all a bed of roses. Babies are hard work! Can you never voice your own woes?

It's inevitable that some of your friendship group will fall pregnant undergoing IVF and what then? Will they be ostracized too?

I think you need to distance yourself a bit. You've done nothing wrong but they seem to have bonded over their shared difficulties with conceiving.
It's all too one sided if they can't shelve their resentment over you having children.

Move on from them. I know that people who are unhappy and struggling may lash out because they are in such pain, but there's no reason for you to keep letting them whine and moan at you and be nasty to you. Their fertility problems are not your fault and not your problem.

IVF has cost me 2 friendships because I failed to say and do the right things.
The first time I became pregnant during a friend's IVF journey and was dumped by a very nasty letter.

The second time, a friend had a go at me because I was not 'there' for her - even though my MIL was dying of cancer at the time and I had my own shit to deal with. None of that mattered to my friend - she didn't even bother to ask how MIL was when we met. I gave up on her because I had enough on my hands dealing with my bereaved FIL, DH and DC. I knew I would get no support from her, but still be expected to be available for hospital appointments, drive her around, etc.
My advice is to move on - you will never get this exactly right and if your friends are the type to be annoyed when you are not perfect in your support, then the friendships are doomed anyway.
I'm sorry for what your friends are going through, but it does not sound like you are helping them and are becoming a target for their anger instead.

Gently, are you sure that you're not expressing things a certain way?

It seems odd that they'd all be upset with you, if you've absolutely not been self-serving or insensitive!

It sounds like your friendship has migrated and you've been ostracised because you're no longer relevant.

I've had multiple failed ivf cycles and the stress of going through ivf is very hard to explain. It's like grief, and it's never ending and extremely isolating. It becomes very hard to maintain friendships as it feels as though you are worlds apart, for many years dh and I became quite reclusive. We still aren't out the other side but we have managed to heal and accept our situation a little. My advice would be - if these are good friends that you want to keep - maybe reassess how you are being supportive, there are a number of threads on the infertility section on what not to say etc. Sometimes letting the friendship drift a little might not be the worst thing if it's too painful on each side... but if you truely cared about these people before they were struck with infertility/the hell of ivf then be ready to accept them back again without resentment when they feel able

I haven't posted on mumsnet for ages but your post really spoke to me because I've been through the exact same thing as you about 2 years ago, in fact I started my own thread about it here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2716316-To-be-upset-by-this-email-from-friend?pg=1

Anyways since then I'm on 'okay' terms with my friend but it will never be the same. She has since then been successful at her first IVF and has a 3 month old DS. On the other hand I went through hell this past year thinking my son might have special needs (delayed speech etc)...lots of appointments etc. Thankfully it seems he's fine just a late bloomer, but I didn't get support from her and I honestly didn't want it either. It's sad how things are but you haven't done anything wrong, I know I've been there, trying to say the right thing and they take everything the wrong way. I would slowly back off now before you get more hurt like I did...

I think you shouldn't take it personally. Your friends will be hearing insensitive comments time after time, on top of the pain, fear and worry of infertility. You are hearing a fraction of the pain they are feeling and they trust you enough to let you know of it, whereas 99 per cent of the time they may be putting on a brave face, biting their tongue, receiving yet more photos of other people's families or baby scans on FB or in Christmas cards, receiving pregnancy and birth news, and congratulating others warmly while knowing they may well never experience the same.

I don't know what else you may have said, but I agree with the poster who said IVF is not "exciting" as there's still such a long way to go and no guarantees. There are certain recurring comments which infertile people have to keep hearing, even though each person saying them probably thinks they are being original or helpful. These include "Why don't you adopt?", "have you tried X", "maybe you're not meant to be a parent", "children are a gift not a right", "I knew someone who...", "Just relax" and so on! This can make the person with fertility problems feel rather patronised, pigeonholed or as if the next comment (however well meant) will be the last straw.

It must be hard to be in a situation where you feel your friends are lashing out or rejecting you. However I think your friends going through infertility would probably rather be in your shoes, and that you wouldn't rather be in theirs. Don't give up on them, but perhaps step back for a little while if you're getting crossed wires too often at the moment.

I did IVF and your friends maybe scared it will never work, scared of injections, feeling stressed and may just not be able to cope with being friends with people with young children at the moment.

Hard to say exactly but at the same point I was terrified it would never work, scared of injections and feeling stressed. I didn't have friends with babies which helped. Maybe step back and let them contact you if you have other friends. If you want to stay friends just try to listen to how they are feeling or comments like I really hope it works for you. I think they may need space though.

@mscongeniality I've just read that other thread. I'm really glad your friend had a baby but wonder what she was like on social media when she was pregnant and when the baby was born. Was she as quiet as she wanted you to be?