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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

School displaying DD's attainment levels on the wall

248 replies

Erinsboroughrocks · 05/01/2018 12:02

DD is in y6 and working towards her SATs. The teacher has a chart on the wall with each child's name listed. Next to each name is a colour for each subject. Green is working above, orange is working at and red is working below. All the children know what the colours mean. DD doesn't like having this up and I feel a bit uneasy about it. WIBU to ask them to take it down (or instead put up a board of colour coded teacher observations in the staffroom 😉)?

OP posts:

TeenTimesTwo · 06/01/2018 21:17

it does help them in competition to know their rank, and who is better than them to learn and progress.

You don't make a pig fatter by weighing it.

frogsoup · 06/01/2018 21:58

But llangollen I so vividly remember the humiliation of always coming last in races. It wasn't me as an adult feeling that, it was me as a child. The idea that children don't feel shame at feeling they can't do something as well as others is such arrant nonsense that it's hard to know where to start with it.

frogsoup · 06/01/2018 22:00

And my parents couldn't have given a toss about where I came in sports day, so I certainly didn't get it from them. Just like I don't give a damn about my own kids coming last in sports, which they do. As an adult, I can laugh at the idea that it matters. Af a child, I really didn't - and neither can my kids. If you think your kids never feel shame, you aren't listening to them carefully enough.

Cuckooclocks · 06/01/2018 22:02

This type of thing is so damaging to all kids, there’s no need for it. The higher achievers end up feeling pressure to stay top of the class and will grow up feeling like grades = self worth, the average are being told they aren’t special (untrue!) and the poor kids who are under achieving get a complex that they are not clever enough! I graduated with a 1st class degree from a top tier university and throughout school have been both an over achiever and an average joe. These labels mean nothing in the end but they make the journey through education needlessly painful.

hks · 06/01/2018 22:07

Good result that they listened to you and that it has been taken down. .
I dont agree with results / attainment level being out on show can only increase bullying ! nor is the way a child is picked for pupil of the class/ week /month / subject etc. What about the child who does just as well but is overlooked or a child with additional support needs / learning difficulties who probably works twice as hard as the high achievers ..school should be a fun way of learning

hazeyjane · 06/01/2018 22:17

I don't know that my ds feels shame. I know that he is upset when he can't understand stuff, I know he is sad when other children call him a baby, I know that he gives up when other children and adults don't understand him, I know he smacks his head sometimes saying, 'stupid brain', I know that seeing his name at the bottom of a list of his peers will do him no good whatsoever.

Fififerry1 · 06/01/2018 23:04

Maireadplastic love wisdom grades for parents.
Llangollen - would be interested to see your score. But I am sure it would simply spur you on to recognise your flawed logic and lack of emotional intelligence.
As the parent of academically bright, sporty children what I hope they have learned from the attitude of the adults around them, from (most) of their teachers and from their own experience is that these are not the most important qualities in making them successful human beings.

Catmc123 · 06/01/2018 23:05

This is a breech of data protection

Abbylee · 07/01/2018 05:02

My dyslexic son could not remember multiplication tables. "Anonymous" ice cream scoops on board given as each test was passed. NOT anonymous and in university now, he still remembers humiliation. As do I from decades ago. We all learn at our own pace and some over achievers are drug addicts after school. Privacy and encouragement please. (I know one horrible sadistic teacher whose demeaning methods truly, not snowflakey, wrecked healthy children's confidence.)

Abbylee · 07/01/2018 05:13

@hazeyjane my heart breaks for you and your ds. I dealt with this too. My son is young adult who just finished his last semester with honors in college and is applying forward. But he went through much "stupid brain" stuff with dyslexia. One ice cream scoops vs classmates six. Things do work out with love, hard work and patience...first term was NOT honorable...he had to overcome much, but it is possible.

Maireadplastic · 07/01/2018 08:47

'Most kids don't feel any shame whatsoever in being the 4th or the 27th of the class.'

I think that's total bollocks.

Silvercatowner · 07/01/2018 08:54

*'Most kids don't feel any shame whatsoever in being the 4th or the 27th of the class.'

I think that's total bollocks.*

I was just going to post exactly the same sentiment (been a teacher for 35 years).

MaisyPops · 07/01/2018 08:55

'Most kids don't feel any shame whatsoever in being the 4th or the 27th of the class.'

You think?
I teach a lovely group of y11s this year. I know for a fact they could put the class in rank order without me saying anything.
I don't do different coloured sheets for students, I don't rank them, I don't mention who the stronger pupils are or anything and they still know.
Students are not stupid.

I had a student last term who was being a total PITA. Nice lad and I love teaching him but he was seriously getting on my nerves acting like a clown. I rang mum for a chat because I was worried that this sudden 'i'm an idiot clown thing' was coming out of the fact he was actually a bit more worried about his upcoming mock exams than he was willing to admit. Mum agreed. He was starting to switch off a bit because 'everyone else is going to do well but me, Dan and Ben find it easy' (they don't) 'and Charlotte and Sarah will obviously get an 8'.
I think he'll do just fine this term, but he identifed a rank order and had put himself much lower on it than I would have

NovemberWitch · 07/01/2018 08:55

If the current plan to roll out paying teachers by results continues to spread over England, I wonder how that it going to impact on children?
If your paycheck is actually based on how each child achieves and progresss, then I think it is going to be very interesting to see what happens to less able or less motivated children. And how many teachers choose to stay intougher schools if they are financially penalised for it.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 07/01/2018 09:00

You don't make a pig fatter by weighing it

I love that saying! I quote it all the time.

BertrandRussell · 07/01/2018 09:10

“You are the one talking about shame, I am not sure why. Most kids don't feel any shame whatsoever in being the 4th or the 27th of the class.“

Says the woman whose children never came less than 4th- oh, except that time Jocasta misread the question with hilarious results. Such a hoot for her to be bottom that week........

Maireadplastic · 07/01/2018 10:00

'I teach a lovely group of y11s this year. I know for a fact they could put the class in rank order without me saying anything.
I don't do different coloured sheets for students, I don't rank them, I don't mention who the stronger pupils are or anything and they still know.
Students are not stupid.'

The children may well know, but do we need to rub their noses in it at the age of 10? Yr 6 is much younger than yr 11.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 07/01/2018 12:01

You are the one talking about shame, I am not sure why.

Research. Actual research. Not some random pontificating on the Internet.

MaisyPops · 07/01/2018 13:34

The children may well know, but do we need to rub their noses in it at the age of 10? Yr 6 is much younger than yr 11
Where in my post have I said that I agree with ranking kids on walls in primary schools?
I was replying to a poster who claimed kids don't know or wouldn't feel anything about where they are placed in the class.

Pupils know where they are without a ranking and have all sorts of feelings about it. A public ranking is inappropriate. The poster who says otherwise clearly has never worked with children.

Maireadplastic · 07/01/2018 15:30

I misunderstood, Maisy. I thought you were saying that public ranking makes no difference as the children know how their classmates rank anyway. Apologies.

MaisyPops · 07/01/2018 21:40

Yeah. That's what I meant. No worries.

I was more stunned that anyone was tryibg to argue that being viewed and reminded that you're 24/27 wouldn't be an issue to a child. Surely it's common sense (not even teaching knowledge) that telling people they're the worst will have a negative effect on them.

bellie710 · 08/01/2018 00:20

We have a similar thing in our school where maths and English levels are on the wall for anyone to see, yet the school think it is unfair to have a competitive sports day as it’s not fair on the unfit kids? So if you are not academic and are very sporty that can’t be praised because it’s unfair to the non sporty kids yet the sporty kids feelings are ignored in academic results!

smackbangwhollop · 15/03/2018 17:05

At work we have a performance table for all the staff to see. It makes some work harder. Those at the top try to stay there. Some at the bottom work hard enough to get to the top.

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