To rant about alcohol and the way it's normalised?

[CheapSausagesAndSpam]

It's EVERYWHERE and it's poisonous. People normalise it..."Oh...wine o'clock already tra la la!"

And all that shite.

It's responsible for thousands of deaths and injuries and trauma every year and yet it's the first thing people think of when they want to celebrate something.

Get this

3 May 2017: New figures released today show that hospital admissions due to alcohol are at their highest ever levels.

The data, summarised in a release from NHS Digital, shows that alcohol-related hospital admissions in England have increased by 64% over the last decade, with an extra 430,000 people being admitted due to alcohol-related causes in 2015/16 compared with 2005/06.

This takes the total number of alcohol-related hospital admissions to over 1.1 million in 2015/16.

And this

Alcohol is linked to over 60 illnesses and diseases, including heart disease, liver disease and cancer. Figures from the local alcohol profiles for England show that admissions due to liver disease have gone up 57% over the last decade, and that the number of people diagnosed with alcohol-related cancer has increased 8%.

How is this a lovely drink? How is this something that is ok to do in front of children and even to allow children to partake of?

People on MN often say "Oh I let my 12 year old have half a glass of wine...it's a good way to introduce it!"

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO!?

And new research points to the fact that it causes irreversable damage to stem cells, scrambling DNA and eventually causing cancers.

www.theguardian.com/science/2018/jan/03/alcohol-can-cause-irreversible-genetic-damage-to-stem-cells-says-study?CMP=fb_gu

Think about it. Society is not doing itself any favours.

But do you think sugar should be banned

no! That would be utterly ridiculous as would banning alcohol. I don’t think the conversation here is about banning anything.

American Indians' "peace pipes" and peyote among native Mexicans, for example

Khat and coca leaves too.

antimatter

Recreationally, and to be fair isn't alcohol cultural? What constitutes a "sacred ceremony"?

I dont' generally eat a sugary food and then go out and start a fight.

" imagine there are a fair few who on NYE who are already drinking think, ah fuck it, im not gonna have a drink for a month because of dry January, why not have that few more?!

January comes and goes, with no alcohol consumption, and again I bet there are so many people who go...well thats out of the way!! lets go celebrate!! and off to the pub to get pissed. "

Yes, I think these two things do happen. But what also happens is that you get used to not drinking on the weekends, not drinking when out with friends and it does break a habit. It also brings down your tolerance so when you start drinking again in Feb, even though a small part of you might be saying 'Let's go for it', you'll actually drink less that you did in December. In my experience dry January does cut down your usual intake.

I've never done the 5:2 diet with food, but people say that they don't binge on their normal days so I think it's similar to that.

"Second, it's a commonly repeated argument from people who smoke, drink etc that they'd rather live a short great life than a long dull one, as if they're going to drop dead of a heart attack, mid orgasm after an all night bender. The reality of course is that most people will be diagnosed with a lifestyle-related illness that will result in 5-10 years gradual decline with the last few years being pretty miserable. "

I agree with you when it comes to smoking. Death from lung cancer is awful.
Very few moderate drinkers will die from an alcohol-related illness like a liver problem though.

"excessive alcohol consumption impacts society massively: violence, driving, health-services etc. "

That is the fault of the people drink driving and getting violent, not the fault of the alcohol and definitely not the fault of sensible drinkers.
I would support you all the way if this was a thread about excessive drinkers, but OP criticises any use of alcohol.

I dont' generally eat a sugary food and then go out and start a fight

Someone might. And almost everyone who drinks an alcoholic drink does not. So what is your point?

What confuses me is the ANGER displayed around alcohol....dare to question it and people get so defensive and angry

Again, you cannot tell anger from words on a screen, you are projecting. What you are mistaking for anger is irritability at your stupidity and rudeness.

I dont' generally eat a sugary food and then go out and start a fight.

You're obviously not my 4 year old.

@Tessliketrees
There are many, depending on the traditions.
This is one of many links you can read about it.
www.native-americans-online.com/native-american-pipe-ceremony.html

Drinking for some is cultural. Does it make it OK? Not really if we know that our health suffers.

"It’s hardly ‘live and let live’ when alcohol contributes so much to domestic violence, drink driving, sexual assault and other forms of violence."

As you point out, it contributes, it doesn't cause. People cause these things.
As for sexual assault, just found this online

"A 2001 research project into sexual assault and alcohol commissioned by the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism puts it this way: “Although alcohol consumption and sexual assault frequently co-occur, this phenomenon does not prove that alcohol use causes sexual assault.” In some cases, the researchers pointed out, it may actually be the other way around. The desire to commit a sexual assault may actually encourage alcohol consumption, as some men may drink before assaulting a woman in order to help justify their behavior."

thinkprogress.org/actually-the-link-between-sexual-assault-and-alcohol-isnt-as-clear-as-you-think-d63519b6ae6d/

There are many, depending on the traditions

That doesn't cover it all does it? No where near.

"Gwen gosh I am not talking about the people in this thrread. I have no idea who you are and how much you drink and how. And I do not care one bit either. "

When I mentioned I was doing dry January, someone on this thread said if you're doing dry January, it means you're addicted.

"It’s hardly ‘live and let live’ when alcohol contributes so much to domestic violence, drink driving, sexual assault and other forms of violence.

DV is caused by violent men, not alcohol, same for the rest. It is such a cop out to blame it on booze.
And yet again, you are confusing excessive drinking with any drinking. The very premise of this thread is wrong.

Cover what?
I am not a subject matter in pipe smoking by Native Americans to give full explanation of how they were/are used.

I spend my working day with alcoholics, people who are alcohol dependent and people who abuse other substances.
I also like a drink. I don't need one, I like one and enjoy it. There is a massive difference.
Peoples does use a lot more of the NHS resources but I wouldn't want to live in a world where we're dictated to what we can eat.

Dh and I are doing dry jan. it’s been easy in the week but hard fri/sat as thats traditionally our fun time of cooking together and having s glass of wine or 3.

After Jan we have a plan to cut our weekend consumption by half so putting us within government guide line limits. Feeling really positive about it.

Regards the op no I think moderate drinking is fine as is drinking responsibly in front of your children. We have 5 grown up kids and they are all moderate drinkers drinking far less then dh and I were drinking so that’s another reason for us to cut back.

The trouble with our culture seems to be going out and getting as pissed as possible rather then drinking moderately with food. Not sure why we have this culture but we do.

Sorry antimatter I am not being very clear.

I meant it doesn't cover all drug and alcohol use. There are sacred ceremonies and medicinal use but mostly it seems to be that humans like how drugs and alcohol make them feel.

Do industries have a vested interest in encouraging this and exploit this for profit to the determent of others? Absolutely, but that's not the whole story. Cannabis use has shot up over the last few decades yet in the media the negative stories about cannabis out number the positive ones a zillion to one.

@peppa

I am so with you. I think people are reading the op and putting their own spin on it. I know it’s become a broader discussion now etc, but the premise of the op is (to me) wrong and completely different to what people are now discussing.

I think the op is wrong in thinking that alcohol, or the normalisation of it, (eg drinking moderately around children), are the bad guys here. It’s drinking excessively / dependently / social problems associated with people who drink more than they should - some people should drink zero imo.

I think the thread would have died on its ass if the op had said what many posters have been saying in support of the op; heavy / binge drinking is a problem in this country. Of course it is!

I don’t happen to think it’s a problem which can be improved by ‘denormalising’ alcohol though.

The thread would have died on its ass imo btw, because most posters would have immediately said the op wasn’t BU. But the fact is, that isn’t what she said.

Exactly. And OP is doing the opposite of what she wants to acheive, because demonising moderate drinking and lumping it in with binge drinking is counter productive. What we need to do is normalise moderate drinking.

it’s been easy in the week but hard fri/sat as thats traditionally our fun time of cooking together and having s glass of wine or 3.

I think this is what mystifies those who drink very little. I rarely drink (my mother was an alcoholic and that has very much affected my desire to drink) but I have lots of fun on a Fri/Saturday night with my friends or DH. This post sounds like you need a “glass or 3” to have fun?

You're lacking in imagination if you're so mystified.

I think that's the crux of the matter Lizzie. I enjoy a good vodka& tonic but I don't need to drink one in order to have a good time. If I do have a drink it really doesn't enhance my enjoyment. I enjoy the actual sharp, refreshing taste of a V&T but unless it's top quality vodka then I'd rather not bother.

I feel just as relaxed and happy, and enjoy myself when drinking a cup of tea.

No I don’t lack imagination. I think the “glass or 3” people lack imagination if they need that to have fun.

Sorry, meant to say 'having a drink doesn't enhance my enjoyment of the company of my friends or DH'.