To rant about alcohol and the way it's normalised?

[CheapSausagesAndSpam]

It's EVERYWHERE and it's poisonous. People normalise it..."Oh...wine o'clock already tra la la!"

And all that shite.

It's responsible for thousands of deaths and injuries and trauma every year and yet it's the first thing people think of when they want to celebrate something.

Get this

3 May 2017: New figures released today show that hospital admissions due to alcohol are at their highest ever levels.

The data, summarised in a release from NHS Digital, shows that alcohol-related hospital admissions in England have increased by 64% over the last decade, with an extra 430,000 people being admitted due to alcohol-related causes in 2015/16 compared with 2005/06.

This takes the total number of alcohol-related hospital admissions to over 1.1 million in 2015/16.

And this

Alcohol is linked to over 60 illnesses and diseases, including heart disease, liver disease and cancer. Figures from the local alcohol profiles for England show that admissions due to liver disease have gone up 57% over the last decade, and that the number of people diagnosed with alcohol-related cancer has increased 8%.

How is this a lovely drink? How is this something that is ok to do in front of children and even to allow children to partake of?

People on MN often say "Oh I let my 12 year old have half a glass of wine...it's a good way to introduce it!"

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO!?

And new research points to the fact that it causes irreversable damage to stem cells, scrambling DNA and eventually causing cancers.

www.theguardian.com/science/2018/jan/03/alcohol-can-cause-irreversible-genetic-damage-to-stem-cells-says-study?CMP=fb_gu

Think about it. Society is not doing itself any favours.

I assume the Gov does nothing about booze because of the income they get from the huge amount of tax on it.

But booze is bankrupting the NHS!!

But when she posted here the vast majority of responses were to excuse him as everyone acts differently when they drink so "these things happen".

I've been on Mumsnet a long time and find it VERY hard to believe that the vast majority of posters on here said that.

When will the tax benefits be offset by the costs to the NHS and police
Yes but whilst the tax on booze rolls in gov can boast huge millions extra to NHS. Tax was73% on a bottle of spirits in 2013, if I have googled correctly.
Can you imagine the response if any gov says no booze sold in supermarkets and pubs closed at 10 as it used to be, oh and bye the bye we are slashing nhs budget. They’d be out on their ear.

When will the tax benefits be offset by the costs to the NHS and police?

The government makes much more from tax than it costs them in policing and the NHS.

Twin yes, of course guests could order a coffee at our wedding. We got married in a hotel, so they were used to serving the occasional coffee or tea

And, as I keep saying, alcohol doesn't necessarily enhance my enjoyment of a get together.

Compassionate I only really drink vodka so I can definitely tell the difference between good & bad.

And, as I socialise with friends we feel perfectly comfortable with me making myself a cup of coffee in their kitchen, thanks

Yes. Hilarious as you may find it, it's also the official line from Womens Aid.

Link, or they didn't say that abuse of alcohol doesn't cause DV.

hmm. You're excusing violent men on the basis of a loss of control from drink. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Then by your logic, you're enabling the abuse by turning a blind eye to a blindingly obvious casual factor. I think all means should be deployed to reduce DV. This means holding perpetrators accountable and removing the trigger. Less ideological but more pragmatic. Frankly I'm astonished that someone should run such a bare-faced NRA/Trumpist argument such as yours. My amusement is directed at your inane argument, not DV.

I work for WA. It's an essential part of our training. We do not excuse violent behavior by blaming it on alcohol or anything else. Alcohol does not cause DV. Violent abusers do.
You can laugh at that all you like.

Pontious, I found similar recently when I went into a gift shop looking for a present. It was full of things by companies like East of India such as little plaques, coasters, magnets etc and almost every single one referenced alcohol. It was absolutely ridiculous. And sad.

Twin yes, of course guests could order a coffee at our wedding. We got married in a hotel, so they were used to serving the occasional coffee or tea

I meant instead of alcohol. I had alcohol at my wedding because it adds to my pleasure, something you seem to be rather judgemental of - despite drinking yourself and have a posting history littered with posts about alcohol. However as you are insistent that you find no added pleasure from alcohol - I wondered if you bothered with it at key occasions in your life

Pontious, I found similar recently when I went into a gift shop looking for a present. It was full of things by companies like East of India such as little plaques, coasters, magnets etc and almost every single one referenced alcohol. It was absolutely ridiculous. And sad.

I agree that the 'you need gin' birthday cards, magnets, mugs etc are dull as fuck, but I'd be more inclined to tie this to the current humour trend than anything else. E.g. 'I'm selling my children on eBay' or 'I'm in my closet eating cake' or whatever.

Oh for the love of small furry things. Domestic violence is not the preserve of 'violent men'. How... self-serving can you get?

You want to drink moderately? Crack on. I don't actually care! But don't post nonsense to justify it!

I understand any WA position about not excusing violent behaviour, because I had to work past accepting 'it's not my fault, I was drunk' myself. Anyone who works with WA will need to be ready and able to support women through that, and into putting responsibility onto their abuser.

I know this because my mother was not a perfect person. Far from it, really, but in addition to other flaws, she had an alcohol problem for many years. As the years went on, she drank more and more at each instance, and she changed in personality at such dosages. She said things she would never have said sober, and she was also physically and verbally aggressive.

I do not excuse what she did, because she chose to take the substance that changed her behaviour, whatever the personal cost the next day. However, I won't pretend she was just violent because she was just like that and condemn her for it. She was violent when she had consumed high levels of a specific popular intoxicating substance. This substance is known to have such side-effects.

If she had never drunk that much, no-one would ever have guessed she was capable of such behaviour, certainly not me.

To put it plainly, I was scared of my mother when she was drunk. I was not scared when she was sober. Why? Because alcohol makes some people violent and she was one of them.

Domestic violence is not the preserve of 'violent men'. How... self-serving can you get? hmm

Who said it was? But do you know many non violent men that abuse their wives?

I know a non-violent woman who abused her daughter.

Good enough?

No, since that wasn't the question. The topic was DV, not child abuse.

(btw, the clue is the term domestic VIOLENCE. Violent people perpetrate it)

Dear me. My previous posts aren't clear, clearly. I expect it's my fault.

Point 1: violence is not simply perpetuated by violent men. It has been claimed in this thread it is. It's certainly an attractive point of view if you are worried the other side in a thread want to ban alcohol altogether.

However. It. Is. Not. True. Alcohol plays a part in violence. Many people can drink as much as they want, when they want, and they won't be violent. To these people, it seems incomprehensible that alcohol could make anyone violent, and they tend to feel alcohol only brings out what's there.

However, just like prescription medication, different people experience different side-effects. For some people, they genuinely change personality when drunk. This does not remove their responsibility for their acts, because they chose to drink. (The English and Welsh legal position on intoxication and crimes takes this into account.)

As a society, the problem of violence within homes from the people you should trust most is more complex than 'violent people are violent'.

Point 2: Child abuse and spousal abuse aren't always that dissimilar. Certainly, post-adolescence, they're amazingly similar. Similar enough that reading domestic violence leaflets and other written guidance helped me rather a lot with leaving that situation. It even took three times to leave, because each time she begged me to come back and said she'd change. (Honestly, it's a bloody script. The times I've seen MNers reporting back the same stuff from their alcoholic, hopefully soon to be ex-partners? Well it's a lot.)

I owe my pleasant life today to all that domestic violence literature to be frank.

What is really weird is the people piously insisting that they dislike alcohol, dislike the taste of it, dislike the effects of it 'but I do have a little drinky on a special occasion'. That makes no sense at all. Unless it's that you have just enough self-awareness to realise that kicking up a huge noise about your magnificently special and righteous aversion to alcohol, at someone else's wedding/birthday party or whatever, is a bad idea.

Unless it's that you have just enough self-awareness to realise that kicking up a huge noise about your magnificently special and righteous aversion to alcohol, at someone else's wedding/birthday party or whatever, is a bad idea.

This probably happens sometimes. I have never seen this happen, but I can't believe that everyone who claims it happens is an unreliable narrator. But what I see in my general life is people on the look-out for anyone not drinking alcohol, and taking the mere sight of a Coca-Cola as their cue to conduct the Spanish Inquisition, Mk II.

If male, the unfortunate soul is faced with demands that he justify his lifestyle choice. If he does, he will be accused of joylessly lecturing the person who asked the question. If female and of childbearing age, she will not only be asked to justify having a Coca-Cola, but various interfering busybodies will insist she's pregnant, quite possibly to her face.

Twin I think I had a couple of glasses of champagne for the toasts at my wedding. But that was all.

I have been lurking here as my family has several big problem drinkers and I'm not sure that I was brought up with normal, healthy views on the subject. Some of the recent pps seem to veer from one extreme to another. Obvious alcoholics at one end and teetotallers at the other. When I speak to friends we are really honest about it generally if we've been overdoing it recently. And I have teenage children so I try to model good behaviour ie drinks with food fine, glass of fizz at party fine, falling over and needing to be put to bed, not fine sort of thing.

There is one friend though who is extremely sanctimonious on the subject. Claims she never needs to drink, isn't bothered, but seems to get trollied reasonably regularly. Ditto her husband. He doesn't drink much either yet has the massive beer belly of a professional darts player. I swear he spends more time in the bar than on the golf course as he/she claims. I think her parents also had problems with alcohol so I can understand the denial to a degree buts it very annoying when she is doing the spiel. I think having to lie about your drinking is the signal of a potential problem.

Ps I had 2 family members die of alcoholism related illnesses so it's something I both do/don't try to think about a lot.

Radion 4 has a theme going this week on Woman's Hour about alcoholism. Some truly heartbreaking stories.

Alcoholism and its related diseases and traumas are very sad. But nothing at all to do with normal drinking. It's like comparing bulimia to just eating.

What is normal drinking ?
I guess anyone who always has the stated units per week or less ?

No, I wouldn't say so. The government guidelines are based on economics rather than health, and are almost the lowest in the world. I would say there is a range of "normal" drinking, but would characterise it by that which is not harmful to health or lifestyle. Non-problem drinking, which is for each person to decide.
For example I drink a glass of red wine every evening with dinner, and sometimes a whisky in an evening. Every few weeks I will go out for an evening and have a few drinks, never too many. I would call that normal drinking, in that is not in anyway harmful to my health or life, it is non problem drinking.