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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Frustrated with friend

62 replies

whatonearth21 · 01/01/2018 09:48

More of a wwyd.

A friend of mine Ive seen alot of at Christmas and New Year as she is on her own and been unwell.

She has just been diagnosed with quite severe sleep apnea and has been in tears over what to do as she wakes up exhausted and is struggling to cope.

I looked up sleep apnea and the top advice to improve the condition is lose weight and stop smoking.

She remarked about how much crap she eats and it makes her feel ill. I gently said is perhaps time to try and address that if it makes you feel sick too.

She said easier said than done and to giving up smoking she said flatly no.

In terms of crap she has been eating, she has gone through 2 of those massive tubs of Cadbury heroes and celebrations since just before Christmas. This is on top of large meals and I am not surprised her stomach is constantly upset. She is obese and knows it and remarks on it.

But in terms of being supportive with a health condition what can you say when they just wont even try to do anything to help themsleves.

OP posts:

bunbunny · 01/01/2018 10:57

What she wants is for you to pull out a magic wand to fix it all for her without her needing to have any of the hard work or effort that you put in to losing weight and that's also needed to quit smoking...

Unfortunately those magic wands don't currently exist so she'll have to resort to doing it the old fashioned hard way, which she doesn't want...

Nanna50 · 01/01/2018 10:57

The top advice for sleep apnoea is to use CPAP I wonder why has she not got a machine they are usually issued immediately on diagnosis (in the UK). Yes they are difficult to tolerate but without it she will be exhausted and have no energy to tackle her issues. And eating to stay awake is common with this level of tiredness, particularly crap which gives someone a short term rush.

Its always easier from the outside looking in to think someone is neglecting themselves and won’t help themselves. Maybe try to encourage her to persevere with CPAP first, although that is a challenge in itself for many people.

PurpleDaisies · 01/01/2018 10:58

No, she wants her friend to know that she’s finding life really hard and she’s feeling down.

Thetreesareallgone · 01/01/2018 10:59

She does sound like a very passive person which is frustrating...

The most important thing though is to encourage her to get treatment for the sleep apnea if you are going to encourage her about anything. She is oxygen deprived at night and this makes her exhausted in the day (so too tired to exercise and eating sugary stuff to keep going in a vicious circle) as well as a high risk of stroke and heart attack- which is already elevated by her smoking.

CPAP machines are annoying and do take time to work out which mask is best and how you can tolerate it, but if she uses one she will feel a lot better in the day and other changes will look more possible.

Or she may not change anything and that is very frustrating!

Nanna50 · 01/01/2018 11:02

It’s hard enough work and effort just staying awake with untreated sleep apnoea, many fall asleep and don’t even know it.

BattleCuntGalactica · 01/01/2018 11:04

People don't always realise that eating disorders happen to overweight people too. It seems like she knows she's in trouble, but she's at the mercy of her brain. Binge eating disorders are more prevalent than people think. This is possibly more than just sleep apnea.

Smoking is an addiction, and addictions are hard to beat. I think she might need support from people who are adept at handling binge eating disorders, because it seems that might be a good place to start.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/binge-eating/treatment/

Mummyoflittledragon · 01/01/2018 11:05

When you feel shit and tired, you body craves sugar as it is instant energy. This is a very addictive and primeval craving. Unfortunately she’s not doing herself any favours by listening to this. It’s so hard not to though.

Original poster

whatonearth21 · 01/01/2018 11:09

Yes that is true.

I'm doing my best to help. Looking after the house and doing the cleaning and washing up and meals while here.

She has a consultant appt soon. Maybe she will get her cpap there.

OP posts:

Straycatblue · 01/01/2018 11:11

Its always very easy for someone to say yes you need to lose weight, yes you need to stop smoking but the reality is very difficult and getting frustrated with her does not help the problem. Addicts whether it is food or nicotine very rarely just stop no matter how ill it makes them feel or because someone gives them advice on how they did it.

Even patients who have had heart attacks and are told they must eat healthier and stop smoking or they will die often dont do it because it is hard and for some you are taking away an emotional crutch that they have had for years and offering to replace it with a nicotine patch and a salad.

The best way to help your friend is to educate yourself on how to help her change her behaviour and manage her addictions and that may even mean taking a step back and not just tell her what to do and then get annoyed when she doesnt do it.

She may never change her habits and even if she tries to change she will likely fall down many times before she is successful and having someone stand over her like a nanny giving her a row/judging her for eating another biscuit or smoking another cigarette isnt going to help her. You think that she doesnt know that smoking is depriving her of oxygen and that her weight is making her unhealthy, of course she does and you are being patronising by telling her this.

If losing weight was easy then there would not be a million pound industry all boasting how to help you do it, of course it can be narrowed down to calories in and calories out but it is a complex issue not easily solved so getting upset with your friend is not understanding the magnitude of the problem and she likely doesnt understand how the complexity of it herself.

C8H10N4O2 · 01/01/2018 11:11

Has she been prescribed a CPAP machine yet? I would expect her to if she has that degree of sleep apnoea diagnosed by a sleep clinic

That will help get the sleep on track, then she may well feel better to address other areas which can help with further improvements. From observation with DH and friends with apnoea the CPAP has been critical to improving quality of life first. That made them better able to address other areas.

TheFrenchLieutenantsMonkey · 01/01/2018 11:20

I was diagnosed with sleep apnoea a year ago. They also referred me to the Specialist weight management service. This is who you see if you are considering gastric surgery (gastric band/bypass) if she is clinically obese with a bmi of over 40 if she asks her GP they should refer her but if her bmi is between 35 and 40 with a diagnosis of apnoea she can also be referred.
They then have a consultant, a physio, a dietician and a psychologist. She doesn't have to want surgery by the way. I don't. I wanted to understand the root of my eating problems so (although its been almost a year) i should be getting a psychologist appointment soon.
And she may have to wait several weeks for a CPAP machine. I did as they are given out at a specific appointment.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 01/01/2018 11:23

Was it her GP that diagnosed the apnoea? Most likely the Consultant appointment will decide on the CPAP prescription to get the correct treatment underway.

I will bet pound to a penny that her GP will have given the lose weight/stop smoking advice too and probably asked her if she wants a referral to the Stop Smoking Services.

Unfortunately Christmas is a time to devour all the rubbish like chocolate , if its there, then why not? she thinks.

I don't think you can help her TBH , you've tried and she's shoved it back at you.
Once she's had her Consultant appointment , they will be blunt WRT weight/smoking , she can then choose to follow or ignore.

I don't think you're judging her but she's asking you but not listenng. And Yes some people do want a magic wand (NHS worker , I encounter it all the time. I listen, I empathise, I advice, I listen to their objections and I re-iterate the advice. In my head I'm screaming what the Jeff do you want from me? I cannot do XYZ until you have done ABC . It is hard)

ChasedByBees · 01/01/2018 11:26

She's probably so tired that the crap food makes her feel momentarily better. It's a vicious circle but she needs to change it herself.

Flamingdinosaur · 01/01/2018 11:34

My partner has sleep apnoea. Losing weight (over 6 stone and is now a v healthy weight) has done nothing for it. Its an outdated thought that losing weight will correct it.
I really think you should just back off a bit about it. If she were to lose weight / stop smoking then she needs to decide to do it herself.
In my experience someone 'helping' me actually made the situation worse and was detrimental to my mental health.

Original poster

whatonearth21 · 01/01/2018 11:37

As far as I have gone is swimming with her once and gently suggesting trying to stop so many treats if she is feeling sick all the time . Just that. Nothing more.

I'm not all up in her face about it. I will say nothing more.

Some of you really do take it too far accusing me of judging and affecting her mental health.

You can be concerned about someone without actually saying much to them.

OP posts:

He11y · 01/01/2018 11:41

You can take a horse to water...

Frustrating as it is, she’s not ready yet and you can’t help her now or in the future by getting dragged in and joining her in her misery. You’ve offered help and she knows she can ask you but, for now, just be there for her as a friend but take a mental step back from this issue.

If she says she needs help, ask her to tell you clearly what she feels she needs from you - that way you keep the ball, and responsibility for it, firmly in her court. Help if you can, only if you can, if not, help her find alternative support, but remember it’s her life and she needs to do the work, don’t take responsibility for her!

He11y · 01/01/2018 11:44

I hear you OP - it’s hard watching someone you care about struggling when the answer seems so obvious - you just want her to know how much better life could be for her don’t you.

SparkleFizz · 01/01/2018 11:55

Unfortunately, if she’s not ready to change, there’s nothing you can say that will get her to make positive steps towards losing weight or quitting smoking. If you persist in offering advice, then at best she'll ignore it, and at worst, she’ll react badly and it’ll damage your friendship.

So I’d back right off unless she’s doing more than just talking about her weight and health woes.

(As an aside, I think walking is a far more accessible exercise than swimming or the gym for someone who’s obese and unused to exercise. It’s less intensive, yes, but also less intimidating, and cheaper if you live near any nice parks or the countryside)

Original poster

whatonearth21 · 01/01/2018 12:10

So I’d back right off unless she’s doing more than just talking about her weight and health woes.

Sigh. Please read my last post on the subject.

She has been complaining about her weight for the years I've known her. Over the years it has increased. I have never said a single word. Ever. Although she has complained that she has limits now to where she can shop as most places dont go above a size 20. She was a 16 when i met her.

It's only now I made one gentle suggestion to try to cut down on the sweet treats if it makes her sick.

I have said nothing else.

OP posts:

Original poster

whatonearth21 · 01/01/2018 12:10

She loves to swim. It was something she did a lot of in her youth.

OP posts:

PurpleDaisies · 01/01/2018 12:14

It's only now I made one gentle suggestion to try to cut down on the sweet treats if it makes her sick.

I have said nothing else.

That’s not consistent with what iou posted further up the thread...

She judged herself and said all the crap l eat makes me.feel sick and I am so overweight. She was in tears. When i suggested addresssing it she said easier said than done.

I took her swimming, suggested joining a gym or leisure centre. She said no.

Gently suggested cutting down on the treats she said no.

Gently said that smoking is depriving her of oxygen even more and she said Im.not quitting.

CorbynsBumFlannel · 01/01/2018 12:16

If people could just lose weight and stop smoking whenever they wanted there would be no overweight people or smokers.
It sounds like you think she should be able to do it because you did. But you became overweight in the first place and lost it when you were in the right headspace. She needs to do the same.

Nanna50 · 01/01/2018 12:22

She doesn't have cpap yet. But has already commented that she doesnt think she could sleep with that on her and doubts how helpful it would be........

Have you googled CPAP images? I think every person ever issued with one cant imagine using one, it is uncomfortable, takes perseverance and determination and will never fully resolve the problem but will lesson the episodes. She currently could be stopping breathing over 30 times an hour if it is severe.

You sound exasperated with her. The consultant and nurse will help her with the pros and cons of CPAP, she will have support that is the first step.

Everything is an effort when you are starved of oxygen most of the night and wearing CPAP is not like popping on a hat it can be claustrophobic. Someone once described it as like having an octopus stuck to your face all night. Don't blame her for doubting herself.

Bobbybobbins · 01/01/2018 12:24

I think you sound like a good friend OP and in the long run she will appreciate you trying to support her.

I would continue to invite her to go swimming with you as that is something she obviously enjoys and could help towards weight loss and a healthier lifestyle. But I would avoid mentioning dieting again u less she brings it up.

KittyHugs · 01/01/2018 12:30

I have learned you can't help somebody who doesn't want to help themselves (with a family member who has diabetes type 2 and a good friend who has s.a and is over 18st) and now I don't even try. I sit and listen, make all the right noises and then when we part company I try and forget all about their problem because if they won't take responsibility for their health I won't. Harsh I know.

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