AIBU to not want kids to stay with ex in Poland for a week during term time?

[junebuginmay]

My ex partner and I split up a year ago, we just didn't love each other anymore and wanted to end things for everyone's sake. I had no issues with him still seeing the kids, he got a flat a few miles away and our older 2 girls stayed there every Saturday, it was a two bedroom flat so they shared a room like they do at mine. DS (18 months now) was only 6 months when we split up and didn't stay with him until he was a year old, but ex partner didn't mind and understood, I was BFeeding and was recovering from severe PND and was very anxious to be away from him overnight, but DS still saw his dad often, ex would stick around and spend a few hours with him after dropping the girls back at mine. When he turned a year old I let him go to his dad's every Sat with his sisters. It was a good setup, no issues whatsoever.

3 months ago, ex's new Polish girlfriend moved in. He'd been with her a few months prior to her moving in, they got together around 6 months after we split. She seems nice, the kids love her etc. The times I've spoken to her she's been really lovely. Things continued working well, no issues, until earlier this month. Her mother back in Warsaw had been involved in a car accident, and had been injured pretty badly. It would be a long road to recovery for her and she had no other family. The girlfriend wanted to go back to Poland to help her mother (she said she'd be going back for at least a year). Ex wanted to go with her. We all sat down together and explained to the kids what was going on, and ex said he would try and visit for the kid's birthdays and Skype often etc. They left. Since they've gone, he's Skyped every other night, and sent Christmas gifts.

Yesterday was DD's birthday, she turned 11. Ex came back for this, without his girlfriend. DD went to the cinema with her friends and we picked them up, dropped the friends of at home and went for a meal at TGI Friday's. At the dinner table, he says to DD's something along the lines of "You two and your brother are coming to stay with us in Poland for a week in January, are you excited?". I was floored, this was the first I'd heard of it, that was for bloody sure. DD1's reaction was what you would expect from a 14 year old, "Does the place you are staying have internet so I can still use Snapchat?". DD2 got very excited. I asked him what in earth he was going on about, and he said "we'll talk later. Don't ruin the meal."

Later at my house, with DS in bed and DD's up in their room, we talk. He tells me he wants all 3 kids to visit him in Poland for a week, going on the 12th of Jan and returning on the 19th. I said no. I don't want to keep the kids away from him usually, but I'm uncomfortable with my DS being away from me for a week, not because his dad wouldn't take good care of him, but because he's only ever been away from me for one night periods and I don't believe he'd cope well with a plane ride without me and such a big change. As for DD's, I told him I wouldn't mind if it was during the school holidays but I don't want them to miss a week of school just after starting a new term. I said, the girls can go during the next half term but DS stays with me. I suggested maybe I go with the girls on the plane (during half term of course, I was not budging on that) and take DS with me. Me and DS would stay one night so he could spend some time with his dad and then I'd take DS home for the rest of the week as I have work (he goes to a nursery while I work which he loves, so childcare is sorted in that aspect).

Ex was not having it at all. He wants all 3 kids with him, for a week, starting 12th of January as his birthday is on the 15th and he wants it to fall in the middle for some reason. I tried to compromise with him, saying maybe the girls could fly out on the 15th and come back the 16th and then we'd do my other plan (we all fly out in Feb and me and DS go back after one night) in February as well. Nope. He will not compromise with me at all. He went back to Poland this morning but has been calling me and begging me to change my mind. I feel like I've been very reasonable considering everything. I never said the kids couldn't go, just that the date he planned wasn't going to work out so I wanted him to move it forward a few weeks, but he's acting like I've cut all contact all together and I don't think that's fair. Now his sister is having a go at me on Facebook and DD (11) has turned on me because she says "dad says you don't want him to be in our lives anymore". Wtf?

If this is during term time would your DDs' school even allow this? That might be your way out. I'd be annoyed he didn't discuss it with you first so yanbu about that.

No you are not being unfair in the slightest.
You would need the head teachers permission to take the children out of school in the first place. But thier is absolutely no reason why it can't wait a couple more weeks until the holidays.
If you had said yes to all 3 going who was he planning to accompany them on the plane?

Absolutely not! He can wait til half term. He’s being very selfish. School may well fine you, does he know this? Unless he has court ordered contact which allows him to take them to Poland, there’s not much he can do about this. It needs careful explanation to your dds.

Who does he think is going to supervise your DS on the flights there and back? Your DD? I wouldn't let the little one go and I think your idea to fly over with them is a good one. If you go in Feb can you stay the week and bring them all back too? If he is being so unreasonable around your suggestions I would not let them go alone and wouldn't let him have his hands on their passports.

It won’t be authorised by school. He wants his kids in Poland to celebrate his birthday for a whole week with his birthday in the middle? What a dick.

You have been totally reasonable and fair about it all. Completely. Plus it’s a short term so February half term will be only 5 weeks away.

Does he know he will have to pay fines?

I suspect it would be allowed by school on a maintaining contact with Father kind of thing so it prob would be, But he is being unreasonable demanding and also telling the kids in front of them before you, in telling them lies about why you have said no and what else you mean etc etc

You sound like you have managed the break up and contact well so far. I think ex is BU to discuss this in front of the children as a fair accompli. There are so many reasons for them. It to go

1. They should be at school
2. The relationship with the new partner is relatively recent
3. I presume they would be staying with the sick mother or perhaps she is still in hospital- don’t think this would be the best idea

Although you have managed thus far without the involvement of solicitors or courts it may be time for a more formal legal agreement as the situation has changed and your ex is BU Hope you get everything sorted

I told him that we'd end up being fined by DD's schools but he insisted we wouldn't if I told a few white lies and exaggerated the reasons why the kids must go. As if.

Just spoken to him a few minutes ago. I asked who would accompany the kids on the plane if I let them go, at first he said we'll just use the "unaccompanied minor service". I'm sure the two older kids would be fine with that but my 18mo? He is very clingy and he would not cope at all. He has never been on a plane so it would be a strange environment for him especially without me to sit with him. I obviously argued this to him and he saw sense (only on this topic though, still won't budge when it comes to the dates) because he then offered to get on the plane at Warsaw and then meet me and the kids at the local airport after landing, before getting back on the plane with the kids. He wanted me to pay for that though as it would mean he'd have to pay twice as much and "we should split the cost of getting the kids transported".

He is driving me mad at this point. And now my DD's won't speak to me a she's turned them against me. Now I'm reconsidering letting them go at all if he's just going to fill their heads with crap about me when I've been nothing but reasonable.

Nope stand your ground you’re being very reasonable given all the details you’ve told us.

Your DDs will be fine and as you can explain to them, you haven’t said no, you’ve said not in term time.

what's he doing for work?

I've had a similar situation in the sense of being asked for visits abroad in term time. I gave the proviso that my ex agree it with the headteacher or pay the fine himself as the other legally responsible parent - before I would consider. He called the Head, they said no, then he asked me to 'make something up'. I flat out refused... Suddenly a solution was found whereas before it was impossible.
Also, sounds a bit like there is something else going on - ie why is he being so stubborn about the dates? Possibly he has already bought the flights?

I agree, it sounds like more is going on than just his birthday. Do you think they are having a surprise wedding or something?

I would say let the older children go but he needs to clear it with the school and pay all their transportation costs. Say no to your youngest.

Everything else aside, it would worry me that he originally thought it acceptable for an 18 month old to be put on a plane on their own, without a parent. I'd be in edge the whole time my children were away.

What age is unaccompanied minor service for? I would not think they would take an 18 month old.

This suggests you need to be 5 years old to use the minors service

www.opodo.co.uk/blog/unaccompanied-minors-rules-by-airlines/

www.seatguru.com/airlines/EasyJet_Airlines/minors.php

Easyjet's unaccompanied minors must be 14 +

Ryanair won't have them

www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful-info/help-centre/faq-overview/Travelling-with-children/T&C-does-Ryanair-carry-unaccompanied-minors

British Airways will carry them over 12 but no help is given

www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/travel-assistance/children-travelling-alone

But dear God, Polish companies are different! Look at Lot's page

www.lot.com/us/en/unaccompanied-children-flying-alone

I am guessing the carer will be Polish, no guarantee English is spoken.

I wasn't considering letting my 18mo go for a week without me under any circumstances, especially with the plane situation, but I kept having to give him more and more reasons (all genuine concerns of mine) as to why I wouldn't allow it. He thinks that as he's offered to accompany the kids on the plane, I should let DS go and stay with him for the week, completely ignoring my other concerns. I just don't think DS is ready to be away from me for a week in a new place. I think he feels like I don't trust him with DS and is angry about it.

I must admit, I have wondered if there's more to it than the birthday. It's odd for him to act so stubborn, he's usually been really good when it comes to doing what's best for the kids. Back when DS was younger he always understood why I didn't want him to spend nights away from me etc. I thought he'd be more than happy at my suggestion that me and the kids fly out in Feb and I would let him spend 1 night with DS. I would take DS home early because I have work to be back for and I don't want to be away from DS for a week so it'd be better off I bought him back, but ex says it's because I don't want him around DS for too long?

He's acted so different about this whole thing than how he acted before he went to Poland. Now I'm wondering if he's hiding something and it's making me paranoid about letting even the girls go at all. I think I'm going to tell him either he compromises with me on the date of this visit and tells me all of his plans and listens to all my concerns about DS. If he refuses, none of our DC's will be going at all. I feel like I am in the right here but I know he's going to make me feel like the bad guy. And the last thing I want is any legal battles. I don't know why he won't accept my suggestion about me flying out with the kids in February. It's not like I haven't given him a fair option. Am really worried there's more to this than he's letting on.

@MrsBertBibby Thanks for the links. Ex had actually told me the airline he was looking at would let DS use the accompanied minor service but that sounded so absurd to me that I thought he was lying. He's probably looked at that page as well. I would not be comfortable with that at all. I can't believe he even considered it.

It's nuts.

He needs to wrap his head round the fact that either he gets your agreement or he takes it to court. And magistrates are really tense about kids missing school, so he'll get nothing more from them than you are offering.

His behaviour in manipulating the kids is disgraceful. You need to tell your daughters straight. Is he paying maintenance, out of interest?

Wow, at this point I'd completely refuse all communications with him about it entirely. I agree it sounds like he's planning a proposal or wedding. No way would I be paying for these tickets or entertaining any discussion whatsoever until he agreed to school holidays at the very least. YANBU.

@PastaOfMuppets I've definitely come to the conclusion that he obviously doesn't want me around for whatever reason. If he thinks I'll care in the slightest about him proposing or marrying this girlfriend (I really do think something like this is a big possibility, might have to see if DD's knew anything about it once they wake up) he is wrong. If he's planning that I don't know why he hasn't just told me. He can do what he likes when it comes to her. I just don't want my children, one of which is beginning GCSE's this year, to miss a week of school. And I don't want my 18 mo in a foreign country for a week without me. If it is a surprise wedding, if he's so adamant that he wants his kids there, he should've organised a date that wasn't so disrupting. If the kids can't make it, it's his own fault.

He wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court (and wouldn't get a hearing date for months) so why are you allowing him to bully you on this? His telling the DC before discussing with you is also very wrong and manipulative.

You are saying that he "won't budge", so what? You are in the right here. As for paying for the travel (if and when the trip happens), he chose to move to Poland, you had no day in the matter so the costs should be his.

I can understand your wanting to stay on good terms with your ex but you do need to put your foot down and stop negotiating now.

In my experience when someone who is usually very reasonable starts to act out of character is at the behest of a third party. Say a firm no to the term time visit (and refuse any further discussion).

I'd also suggest talking to your DD and explaining that her dad didn't think it through and that he won't compromise on her visiting during school holiday. If he keeps on at her, organise a video call 'to clear up misconceptions' and ask why he is so determined the children can't visit during school holidays. I'd also say the same to any family who will have gotten his version of events.
I'd also practice saying that you aren't going to lie to the schools, he won't reassure you on basic questions and he won't allow a change of dates to enable it to work for everyone.

Please please take the idea of leaving your dds there while you take your ds off the table right now, none of them should be going anywhere untill there at an age where it can be equal.