AIBU to need help - WWYD to help DD?

[KittyCrackers]

Warning - long! Name changed as this is sensitive and I am freaking out.

My 8yo DD's father has a history of abusive behaviour and did not see her for almost 4 years of her life once I had asked him to leave. He was arrested twice while she was in his care - once for driving without insurance and once for assaulting his then-girlfriend. I had threads on here both times about these (if you recognise me, please don't out my normal username). On solicitors' and social services' advice we stopped contact, until he could prove that he was not a danger to DD - and that was the last we heard from him for almost 4 years.

In January 2016 he got in touch again, out of the blue, and said that he had fulfilled all the court conditions to resume contact - ie testing for bipolar disorder (it runs in his family) and attending an anger management course. After so long I thought he had forgotten about us but he sent me proof of all of the conditions he'd met, so I had no choice but to facilitate contact again. Our school nurse arranged some counselling at this time, and it was really useful for both DD and myself to be able to talk about her new relationship with her father and she gave us both some great coping strategies at this time.

It was really awful for me in the beginning, as we had to start with supervised contact in public before progressing to unsupervised and finally overnight visits. After a few weeks of awkwardness they seemed to settle down with each other and she started to look forward to visits more. After a year all was going very well - DD was building up a great relationship with him and seemed to love going to his house he shared with his fiancee (she had taken him back after the assault mentioned above) and her new baby half brother. Until this week.

She was supposed to be with him from Christmas Day until 1 January, but I received a text message on 27 December at 06h30 asking me to come collect her, as XH and his fiancee had had a disagreement and the police were coming for him again. I went to collect her straight away and she has not been right since. She told me that XH and fiancee had been arguing a lot lately (he has been unemployed for 6 months, and she has been sole breadwinner and paying the mortgage all on her own) and she overheard them having a huge fight on the day after Boxing Day. She heard them swearing at each other (she told me the words she's heard - no 8 year old should hear names like that, it was appalling) and she heard fiancee screaming when XH picked her up and threw her against the wall. The police arrived very quickly once fiancee called 999 and took XH away, which DD witnessed herself.

She has not been the same since we got home. She is not eating, she is complaining of a stomach ache and headache all the time. She seems to be seeking reassurance and compliments constantly - saying things like "I'm the best cook ever, aren't I, Mummy?" and "people say I have great eyesight, my eyes are the best" and other attention seeking statements that are out of character to her. She is super-clingy - she wants to be on my lap or in my presence all the time. If she's not on my lap she's been shutting herself in her room - she's normally the most sociable child around, this is so unlike her. She is not herself and I am really concerned that this third police involvement, plus hearing the language and violence first hand, have had a negative effect on her. I tried to shield her from this side of him, and he assured me he'd changed, but it would appear not. I feel so guilty for letting her go back there although I was advised that I had no choice as he'd fulfilled all the court conditions - I KNEW what he was like, I should never have let it happen.

She does not want to go back to her father's at this stage - which I completely agree with - he is refusing to tell me exactly what happened, says he has to get solicitors advice first, and I suspect that he is being charged by the police this time as Fiancee did not press charges the first time it happened.

DD has asked if she can see the school counsellor again, which I've requested. How can I help her in the meantime? I am completely at sea as to how to handle this, all the old feelings of fear and anguish are coming back and I don't know what to do to help her. Or me. I do not want to take her back there EVER - can he make me? I am so stressed and guilty that I feel sick with worry for her - does anyone know of any good counselling service (preferably free, as XH hasn't paid maintenance in 6 months) that could help me with legal advice and also how to best support my darling girl?

Shoeshavesoles - documented how? at the GP? School counsellor? Or via a solicitor? I know that they stopped legal aid in cases except for DV but as this was not against me, I'm not sure I'd qualify - any legal bods who can advise?

Oh, and how can I put this? See if you can change your contact details as much as you can- change phone number, email address, actual address if possible.

Make it as difficult as possible for him to get in touch with you again.

He's a nasty violent man - and the longer you can put off any contact from him, the better. Come off social media. Your DD is 8 now - by the time she's about 12, any court will listen to her about whether she wants to see her father.

Make sure neither she, nor you, feel guilty or to blame for what's happened. Talk to her, and ensure she puts the blame firmly where it belongs - with him.

Oh, OP, I really feel for you and your poor DD. Please try not to blame yourself; you were doing what you thought best - and anyway once your ex had fulfilled those various criteria then you had to allow contact so not your 'fault' at all.

I agree with PPs - keep her close to you and reassure her as much as she needs. Encourage her to talk. Tell her nothing she might want to say is too shocking for you or will upset you. Let her talk to the school counsellor. You sound like a wonderful mother and your DD is lucky to have you given her rotten father.

I am no legal expert, but it sounds as if Shoeshavesouls above knows what she is talking about. Clearly you don't want to have to make her see him again, but you will need to work the court system correctly to ensure that.

Sending you all the good luck in the world. I had a father rather like your ex. It was dreadful, but the love and protection of a good mother goes a long way, I promise you.

Kitty - all of them! Get it on record wherever you can. You want as much in writing as you can - with as many agencies as possible.

If he takes you to court in future - you will need documented proof of what's happened during past visitation, and the traumatic effect on her.

Make sure you get her interviewed by Cafcass. Get it on record that she was scared and doesn’t want to witness that again.

Speak to the police dealing with the case and get something in writing about her witnessing domestic violence.

Make sure someone at social services is looking out for her baby brother.

She may be quite worried about her half brother and her “nearly step mother”

As others have said, lots of cuddles and reassurance.

for you too, horrible all round.

I think that your daughter might be entitled to legal aid?

There are charities that can advise on family law as well.

No helpful advice to offer unfortunately - just wanted to say it seems like you did everything right, he even provided evidence that he had (supposedly) changed, and you phased your DD in gently.

It is not your fault at all. As Pp have said let her talk and just let her know you're there for her whenever she needs you, she is probably still fairly traumatised by what she witnessed/heard! ❤️ to you both

Try not to feel guilty, I know you will even if told not to, but you did the best you could. No one can do more than that. It looked as though things were going well. You took legal advice. After all, his fiancée took him back..

Do things with her where you’re both active but no eye contact (latter is important). Driving, washing up, cleaning shoes, watching tv. Say apropos of nothing, “ you know, darling, if there’s stuff you want to tell me, you always can.” And/or use the “ you know how on tv x had a terrible time on y, I wonder how it felt” . Be prepared for nothing to happen possibly at all, or immediately, or the floodgates to open after a few mins and again and again.

Get her doing tasks with you, use the clingyness to do things together. Let’s make the fish pie, wash the bath - you do this end, I’ll do this one, who can make the taps shinier, do the kitchen floor, dust together, make beds together. Lots of time for cuddles during and appreciation afterwards, how helpful she was. Boring normal routine often seems to help.

Think of therapy, and just getting her to describe her feelings in other ways, at home as well as at therapy. How happy are you on a scale of 1-10. (Children can tell you quite young. ) Draw your feelings. Express your feelings eg if angry, crumple some paper up, then aim it at the waste paper basket. Again and again.

Think of getting her a furry live animal, a guinea pig or kitten or rabbit. Or visiting places where they can be held. It’s hugely comforting to have a pet.

With her, allow her to cry into her teddy and reenact what she needs, perhaps buy her a new one to look after.

Tell school, they may have a counsellor, her attention may go off centre, she may be fragile there. And tell them what to do if he turns up to collect her.

Slowly, let her know all men are not like that.

Thinking of you both..

I must say, I question whether the legal advice you received was correct. When the court set those conditions, I doubt that they envisaged him taking four years to meet them - as your daughter grew older, self-evidently circumstances had changed. It's water under the bridge, and of course it's definitely not your fault if you received the wrong advice, OP.

I'm afraid you wouldn't qualify for legal aid, but if he takes this back to court I would consider going to another solicitor. Given what has happened, I'd have thought the court would be extremely reluctant to reinstate contact. Referral back to the school counsellor sounds a very good idea, not least because it will provide independent evidence of the effects of all this on your daughter.

Oh Kitty - my heart goes out to you and your daughter.
I think you have done every thing correctly and none of this is your fault or your DDs so please ignore the nasty judgemental “ why did he have her at Christmas” comments . They are not necessary at all and bring nothing to the party. Why people feel the need to write things like this is beyond me.
Anyway, just keep doing what you are doing, and encourage your DD to talk about what happened. If she asks any questions then don’t lie to her. Tell her the truth as in the long run it’s easier to assimilate the truth than lies , no matter how well intended.

The good thing is is that you can tell DD that she does not have to see her father again until she wants to- if she ever does.
Does she maybe want to have contact with his girlfriend and her half brother though? It might help her to see him. She has a bond with him that she will never have with anybody else ( I have a half brother from my dads second marriage and we are very close despite a twenty year age gap because we both know the hurt our crappy dad has inflicted on us. It’s our pain and it has helped us both a lot over the years to have someone in exactly the same boat, so if your daughter wants to see her brother and you can have contact with girlfriend then I would facilitate it if I were you)
You sound a very lovely mummy and your daughter is wounded from this visit but she will recover. Just keep loving and comforting her and make sure she lets out the pain, fear , anger and frustration which must be whirling around her head.
It’s a new year tomorrow. A new start. Concentrate on that for you both x

You can make an appointment with a GP - and it will go on her medical records. You can ask for counselling for her there - it may take a long time to come through, but it is then documented with a paper trail.

Same with the school.

Make sure you have actual paper copies of whatever you can if you do need to attend court in the future. I cannot stress this enough - the court will not take your word for it. You need it in writing.

You could try contacting Womens Aid, or there is a great website resource called "Rights of Women" - you can google it.

In the meantime - do not contact him again - and make it extremely difficult for him to contact you.

Re law, go to the CAB ( if in England and I think Wales, no idea re Scots or NI, sorry) and ask for list of solicitors who provide half an hour free advice and what they specialise in.

Sort out the questions you want to ask beforehand, to maximise use of time , using MN as appropriate, with short summary of what’s happened.. the one you did here will do fine, with a bit of addition. Ask away.

All very good advice - I'll book a GP appointment next week and pop into the CAB as well. Is it worth contacting Social Services about this, or would that be a bad idea? We don't have a social worker and I'm not sure how they would view this situation. Would it be a bad thing if they knew?

I expect you are already doing this but one way to spend nice quiet time together and help rebuild your daughter's self confidence is playing games. Maybe get out old and new board games and let her pick some. Then let her win - nothing like winning a game to cheer you up.

Jigsaws are also good - you can comment on what she is doing and compliment her "That bit is done now, well done". Apologies if this is obvious but this is what children want when they are feeling down - attention from the people they love.

It's quite a long time until school is back. I would make a plan for the next week with something each day, e.g. trip to the library, swimming, walk around the park, baking (can include looking up a recipe, finding ingredients at supermarket). Get yourself some good lightweight books too whilst you are at the library, you can always distract yourself with reading if you find yourself brooding.

Try and make time to talk to a trusted friend as you have been through a trauma too.

That's a tough one kitty - my friend had SS intervention from the moment he was arrested. But that was because he was still living at the house at the time of arrest. She did not, I think, find them that helpful at the time.

But when he went for contact through court - she had the SS report in writing, and the Judge ordered a CAFCASS report. Possibly based on the previous intervention, or possibly just as a fact finding. If you can get details of the police report, (would have to be via a solicitor I think) then that would be the best thing.

Maybe consult CAB on that? I'm not a lawyer - just lived through this scenario with a friend. It was hellish for her and the children - but she did stop contact, and the court did take what the children had to say into account. So, if your DD doesn't want contact, that will hold weight with a court.

I really feel for you and your DD I wish you luck.

My dd witnessed things like your dd has and also behaved the same after witnessing DV incidents, shouting swearing, police coming. She was terrified of the police for along time, i got out when she was 7. That was almost 10 years ago and its had a lasting effect, she alsways been nervous, her sisters are fine as one was tiny the other one never lived with him.I wish i had got counselling for her

Arrange a contact centre

Great advice here, I would add watching YouTube videos together of cute silly animals while snuggling up under a blanket also really helps and is something you can do easily when you don't have emotional or physical energy to do the other excellent suggestions of playing together.

Because of his behaviour you should not allow any contact. He is a risk to your daughter. If he wants contact he can make an application to court. Cafcass would get info about police involvement, dv & would almost certainly recommend a section 7 report be prepared to look at the risks. No contact should take place in the meantime & due to the risks the report might recommend no contact.
I agree with a pp, the advice you got saying you had to allow contact wasn't good advice. Not your fault at all, you did what you thought & hoped was right.
Legal aid would depend on your finances & whether you can get evidence of dv in your relationship with him, or risk to your daughter. A solicitor should discuss this with you & see if there's a way to get legal aid.
Social services would probably not get involved as you've done the right thing by protecting your daughter.
Circumstances have to be extreme for a court to not order contact but given his history & recent events, I reckon a court might decide this is one of the rare times to say no.
Is there a local dv organisation you can speak to for advice, maybe Women's Aid? They can offer support for you & for your daughter too.

If police attended and took your dd details then you may get a call from ss anyway in the new year as a follow up.
They will ask if dd is ok
You say no she is showing signs of ptsd and tell them you seeking help.
You will tell them you keeping her away from her dad for now.

You can say that if in future she wants to see dad it will have to be supervised again.

Given you have good reason for no contact and the incident is recorded by police you can just wait for him to take it back to court...

Focus on getting help therapy counselling for dd.

Who texted you to come get her?

Tell school including safeguarding person so they aware in case he turns up at school.

What shoes said. Make sure it's documented and reported to social services. (I think if police attend and a child is present a report to social services is automatic). If he still has a court order in place mandating contact go to court and request that the order is cancelled/ ask for an order stopping contact. Womens aid/cab may be able to help you to do this if you can't afford a solicitor.
Reassure your daughter that none of this was her fault. Although Daddy loves her he does wrong and scary things sometimes and that's why he doesn't live with you. Now DGF and her baby brother have found out that he still does those things so he can't live with them either, but she can still be his big sister.
She is likely to regress, get angry, act out and also may be scared to show anger herself. Tell her you don't want her to see him until she is older because of his behaviour, and when she is older she can decide for herself.
Are you feeling strong enough to reach out to the girlfriend and support your dd's relationship with her baby brother? Knowing that your ex's behaviour is part of a long pattern may help her to keep him out.

Has he been arrested and charged with assault?
If he is unlikely to be turning up for contact then you don't need to rush to do anything legally.
If he is being charged he must know the game is up and he isn't going to get unsupervised contact...unless he is pleading self defence....
In case of my ex I knew he wouldn't go to court himself so I didn't follow advice to get order changed. I had good reason to stop contact so did that.

Also ypur gp can refer you to free nhs counselling
Or you and dd to a family therapist or both

she is probably worried about what is going to happen to her dad, and worrying maybe that you will never let her see him again.I think you need to remember that young children usually deeply love their parents however flawed they are.
Then there is the little brother, is she going to miss him a lot?