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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Karma or unkind

62 replies

Madwoman5 · 30/12/2017 02:03

Bit of a long one...
My schoollife was not brilliant. From 11 - 15 I was bullied, physically and mentally.
My form fell into three groups; the followers, the puncher and the social outcasts. The followers were led by a dark soul who was clever enough never to get caught and got others to do her dirty work. The puncher was a girl that was part of the followers but much more violent and would act independently. I was one of the outcasts.
Every day something would transpire. From planting their stuff in my bag and crying thief (resulting in a bag search that would inevitably result in the missing item being discovered somewhere in my bag), to defacing or destroying my books/bag/uniform resulting in the wrath of my single parent who would struggle to replace them and the teachers who would not believe I had done the homework (pages ripped out). There was always someone pouncing as I left the classroom. There was nowhere I could ever go to escape them, they would find me. I was not allowed to laugh, put my hand up in class, even paint my toenails without being punished by one group or the other. After intervention, the dark soul backed off (3 years on) but the most violent one continued. Her physical attacks were brutal. After leaving school, I hoped I would never meet her again. Fast forward to 20 and she popped up again in my social circle. She convinced everyone she was a changed person and then hurt a very good friend, very, very badly (not physically). I never thought she would stoop so low as then.
This person dominated my life for years. Ruined every day of my high school and left me with mental scars tens of years later.
I abhor bullying of any kind and have fought tooth and nail to protect my kids from bullies. I have zero patience for anyone who raises their hand to another except in defence.
I recently heard this woman died. Part of me wants to sing "ding dong the witch is dead". However, the other part of me wants to forgive her, having paid her dues by not surviving middle age. It has brought that whole sorry time back and I am struggling to know how to feel. AIBU to feel this way after all these years? Be gentle.... childhood abuse is hard to forget.

OP posts:

footballmum · 30/12/2017 07:15

I also believe in Karma but you're part of that cycle too. I believe that holding onto negative emotions will eventually come back and hurt you. Your hurt and anger at the way you were treated by this person are completely understandable but to hold onto those only seeks to have a negative effect on you. OP, you sound like you have grown beyond your treatment as a child and have become a good person. Focus on that and let all of those negative emotions die with your tormentor.

This doesn't mean you have to glorify someone or be a hypocrite and perhaps develop a couple of set phrases such as "its always sad when someone dies young" or "I'm sorry for her family's loss", both of which are true but do not convey any false emotion that you do not feel.

soursugar · 30/12/2017 07:26

She new what she was doing to you was terrible and that made her a horrible person! I think you have every right to feel happy/ relieved she is dead as you know she can no longer hurt you. So sorry you went through all that op

tolerable · 30/12/2017 07:35

You neither asked to be a target nor killed her(presumeably). Your experience has shaped you and sounds like youve come out ok. you dont have to mourn...theres nothing to gloat about....so**It is what it IS,f++k what it was. i think

Humpsfor20yards · 30/12/2017 07:41

I can understand your confusion op, and I think it's normal.

I can't understand people who believe in karma. What a simplistic world view to have. When you hear of children murdered etc, do you think 'karma' then?

toomuchtooold · 30/12/2017 07:42

Own your feelings, it'll only make you happier. The woman was nothing but a blight on your life and if you're happy to see her gone that's entirely understandable.

I got bullied at school as well as being emotionally and physically abused by my mother and a couple of years ago I found out that my main bully has since been outwardly quite successful but she's been a victim of domestic violence and is still with her violent DH. I have to say I had mixed feelings. I did have some genuine sympathy for her and it made me realise that it was likely she had had a shitty home life like mine - most bullies do. But while I wasn't actively pleased about her trouble, I was kind of relieved not to find out that she'd graduated from making my life a total misery into a lovely happy life. That would have galled.

TheSquashyHatOfMrGnosspelius · 30/12/2017 07:43

Forgive and move on? Fuck that! Big fist pump. Yell, "Back of the net" really really loudly with a Cheshire Cat grin and....then move on

It's namby pampy shite that gives natural bullies leave to continue. Even as an adult she continued to be an asshole. Why even spend the mental energy to find forgiveness for her? Just accept the natural order of things and give it no more thought, just a little smile. It doesn't make you a bad person. It makes you a person that recognises justice and balance and that is a fine trait to have.

winterinmadeira · 30/12/2017 08:03

She knew she was hurting you all those year ago...and didn’t give a fuck about you or your feelings at the time so why should you feel guilty about thinking and feeling relief and not unhappy that she is dead?

No forgiveness needed here and you have every right to feel the way you do.

DIngdongmerryilyonhigh · 30/12/2017 08:04

I have always found it strange how once someone is dead we choose to remember their good points and somehow overlook or forget any horrible traits. I don't believe in doing this,

That girl made your life hell at school for years. She wasn't a nice person because over the years you were at school together she could've backed off as she grew up but she didn't she continued. So in response to your question, no you don't have to forgive her just because she's died prematurely. It doesn't change the person she was. It doesn't make her a better person just because she's died young, you don't have to or need to feel sympathy for her. It doesn't change the person she was.

DIngdongmerryilyonhigh · 30/12/2017 08:09

Just as a footnote, there were three bullies at my school that really stand out, two girls and one boy, all mentally abusive and violent and if I heard any of them had died mid life I would think good! You were a nasty piece of work at school and I'm glad your life hasn't ended well.

genever · 30/12/2017 08:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Humpsfor20yards · 30/12/2017 08:18

But karma rolls round to everyone.

I find that view really annoying/stupid.

Nousernameforme · 30/12/2017 08:30

They are where they can no longer hurt you or anybody else I would feel relieved I think.

In a few days/weeks the outpouring will be forgotten and so will she. That chapter of your life can close now

hullaballooooooo · 30/12/2017 08:32

I think you need to make peace, forgive her and move on. Your anger and hurt is not affecting anyone but you- it’s poisonous and destructive. She can’t hurt you now; but by not forgiving and storing those negative feelings, you’re hurting yourself.

fourquenelles · 30/12/2017 08:38

Madwoman5 I know how you feel about the comments on social media about how wonderful the deceased was etc yadda yadda.
My Dads life was turned inside out by a man she met on Tinder. He was a violent controlling bully and by the time she plucked up the courage to leave him she had lost her job, her car and was in £24k worth of debt with 280 hours of community service to boot.
After being srredted for drunken violence whilst on hlidsy, he bailed himself out of a Mexican police cell and flew home leaving her there with a passport he had ripped up and no money.
When he had (a coke induced) heart attack and died a couple of months ago I was elated. ELATED.
I have had to sit on my hands when I have come across posts on social media about how wonderful he was. No. He. Wasn't.
But he is dead now. A young life wasted so I am sad for what might have been but BUT he can't hurt my DD anymore and that is priceless regardless of what misguided friends of his think.

fourquenelles · 30/12/2017 08:39

Sorry about the typos. DD not Dad obvs.

user1497357411 · 30/12/2017 08:39

It is not a negative feeling that your are relieved she is dead. It is NOT poisonous and destructive. It is a natural, healthy feeling. Don't feel guilty and don't feel you have to feel a different way in order not to "poison" yourself. Such nonsense!

DoubleRamsey · 30/12/2017 08:45

Op you feel what you feel, I think you should just go with it and not feel guilty. You can also feel happy she is dead and sorry a bit for her at the same time.

@BattleCuntGalactica

I think people say forgive not for the other persons benefit, it's more so you don't have to carry around all that negative energy. Forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting or letting that person back into you life again.

OrdinaryGirl · 30/12/2017 08:52

One of the best bits of advice I've read is this, from the peerless Anne Lamott: 'Not forgiving someone is like drinking rat poison and waiting for the rat to die'.

You need and deserve all the lightness and joy and new life that comes your way. This woman is part of your past, and it sounds like social media is keeping her in your present.

Perhaps consider a bit of a social
media detox as regards posts about her? Focus on what you DO want and fill your newsfeed and time with those things.

Wishing you all the best OP. Good things are up ahead.

Mytupenceworth · 30/12/2017 09:23

I had a very similar situation but as a young adult and it was in work.

For some reason this bully decided to make my life hell. Physical violence damage to personal property and wore me down to the thought of suicide.
Fast forward to a few years ago, I'd left the job, moved on got married and had kids when out of the blue I got a phone call from a mutual friend. Bully was dying of stomach cancer and wanted me to visit her, she wanted to apologize.
She caused me so much hurt and pain I wouldn't and couldn't do it. She died never having my forgiveness and to this day I hate her for what she did to me.

aaaaargghhhhelpme · 30/12/2017 09:29

So sorry for everything you went through

I agree that it's entirely personal. You feel what you feel. You don't need to justify it to anyone else. After what you went though I'm not surprised you feel this conflict over forgiving her

The only thing I'd say is - you have to think about you. And what's best for you. You're alive. You have the rest of your life to live. This woman cast a shadow over a large part of your life. Don't let her continue even after her death.

I would do whatever it means or takes for you to come to some sort of peace. Maybe it's not forgiveness. But some sort of way of saying - right. She's gone. She no longer has a hold over me. And letting go.

Hope that makes sense. Take care of yourself

Mytupenceworth · 30/12/2017 09:50

Arrrhelpme,

That was then! I have moved on. It was a very difficult time and affected every part of my life. My mom and dad were worried sick about me. I lost all my confidence, developed ibs, couldn't eat sleep or anything.

When I eventually plucked up the guts to say it to my boss he didn't believe me! Only for other people coming forward to say they witnessed some of it would probably be a story with a different ending.

It's not something I dwell on but reading the ops past kinda brought it back.

Op do whatever it takes for you to find peace, she can't hurt you now hugs

ForagingForFaerieGold · 30/12/2017 11:23

Lots of misunderstanding about what Karma actually means on here but leaving that aside, I'm not getting the sense that she ever asked for your forgiveness nor that you were able to forgive her in life, so that ship has sailed so to speak.

You have no obligation to forgive her and the only real reason to do so now would be if it helps you.
I didn't in similar circumstances and it hasn't poisoned my life if it helps. But everyone is different. You apparently feel bad that you can't forgive her but you shouldn't. She never asked you to and it makes no.difference to her now anyway.
Once the hoo har has died down it will be easier to forget this. Try to avoid the mass hypocrisy and don't feel guilty for not joining in. Why should you?
She was a terrible person and now she's gone.

File and forget.

It does get easier.

RhodaBorrocks · 30/12/2017 15:55

I can't understand people who believe in karma. What a simplistic world view to have. When you hear of children murdered etc, do you think 'karma' then?

As PP have said, there's some major misunderstanding if what karma really is on here! For a good explanation go [url="https://buddhaimonia.com/blog/karma"]here[/url].

Following on from that, No, you don't have to forgive her, nor revere her or elevate her to sainthood because she has died.

However, if you wish to follow karmic principles yourself then you can acknowledge that she was utterly shitty to you, her death has given you a sense of relief and enjoy the sense of peace it brings - ie. You're not glad she's died per sé, but you are acknowledging the positives for you. Karma is about thoughts and actions that bring peace to the world, so you can accept that this has brought you peace and therefore makes you better able to live peacefully in the world. Besides, everyone dies sooner or later and death is what it is - we shouldn't see death as punishment because it's coming to all of us.

TL;DR version: you don't have to forgive her, mourn her or even feel sad.

Hope you can move on completely now.

RhodaBorrocks · 30/12/2017 15:55

Url fail!

buddhaimonia.com/blog/karma

IrkThePurist · 30/12/2017 16:02

Madwoman5
When you have endured abuse and the abuser leaves or dies, your spirit can feel lighter, knowing it is finally over. They cannot return to hurt you any more.
For many people, thats what they mean when they have that 'ding dong' moment. They feel as if a weight has been lifted, knowing they'll never have to deal with the bully again.
Its ok to feel a sense of relief that its finally over.

That allows you to forgive and move on. What you were put through sounds really terrible. I hope you find some peace now.

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