to tell 13 yo DD she can't read American Psycho? - also alternatives please. (Content Warning from MNHQ)

[GatherlyGal]

So my (very mature) 13 year old DD has come home from town with American Psycho which she bought in Waterstones. I'm a bit surprised they sold it to her tbh but I suppose it's not their job to police who is buying what.

Anyway at the risk of making it sound even more exciting I've taken it off her and plan to return it. She's very interested in psychopaths so any slightly more appropriate suggestions would be very welcome!

I8toys's suggestion of Mind Hunters is a good one. It is adult but to be honest, I'm sure she's seen worse on t'interweb or in books if she already likes horror.
It also with scratch that itch for her as a lot of the dialogue is taken from transcripts from actual interviews conducted by the fbi. It follows the behavioural science unit of the fbi as they develop ways of profiling and categorising serial killers. A lot of it goes in to why people do the things they do.

Ugh that should've said not real.

YANBU. I wish my parents had policed my reading more at that age, they're not mature enough, no matter how bright.
Agree with the recommendation of The Psychopath Test. The Good Psychopath's Guide to Success is also interesting.
For fiction, there are loads of crime novels that aren't too graphic. Something like Patricia Cornwell or Kathy Reichs, both of which feature strong female characters too

OP please don't let her read this. It's not about maturity. She is a young teen in the midst of her sexuality forming. The impact of a book like this (or exposure to online pornography) is massive at this age. And needless to say massively detrimental to her attitudes to sex, sexual desire and men.

Not sure RhythmStix. I haven't read it but I'm guessing part of it is that it works as an analogy, as a pp wrote, for the excesses of 90's America.

“I'm 37 and seriously wish I'd never read this book. There is one scene (rat) that will never leave me.“

This.
Has she seen the film (which is brill)? The film is like CBeebies in comparison to the book and it’s an 18 !

Think I was about that age when I read it - wouldn't recommend it to be honest. I didn't understand the satirical elements and so it was just horrific for the sake of it at that age.

While I wouldn't recommend all his stuff to a 13 year old, I wonder if some Chuck Palahniuk might be a better fit if she is very mature. Diary would be good as it's not too explicit or disturbing. Survivor, Lullaby, Fight Club and Invisible Monsters may also work - I love Survivor and I don't think there's anything in it that would be too disturbing but my last read was a long time ago. Do not let her read anything from Haunted onwards really, not yet at least.

Oh, what a dilemma.

I grew up with an open bookshelf and was reading far in advance of my years. My parents didn’t own American Psycho though...

I’ve read it as an adult and it’s an excellent book if one can remain undisturbed by the more graphic details (I read them fairly clinically - maybe I’m a psychopath). The themes are thought provoking and there are many talking points surrounding it. But 13 is too young, I feel. She won’t ‘get’ the philosophical and social debate, and thus the graphic scenes will be her most of her ‘take home message’.

I’d also say she could be very bored very soon in.

I'm not usually in favour of censoring young people's choice of books, but I think the difficult thing to convey about the novel is just how funny it is for the most part. Those lists. The torture/murder is all in Bateman's head, it doesn't actually happen. None of this makes the porn/gore parts the less problematic though, and I think Easton Ellis is having his cake and eating it here.

I should say not actual lists, but the minute itemising of clothes, cosmetics, appearance, possessions, etc.

OntheRise, a reflection of its time, seriously? I lived through the 90s and don't remember anything st all as horrific as that book.

OP, like a PP said, Perfume would be great.

We don't know that he imagines all of it.

I wouldn't have wanted Tiny Clanger to read American Psycho at that age, but it's hard to stop them, and taking the book off her has probably made it more interesting to her.

Is it possible that the endless lists and repetitive conversations in the early stages might put her off?

I'm not advocating giving the book back, just thinking of damage limitation. Tiny Clanger got hold of one of DH's old true crime books when she was about 12 and couldn't sleep for at least a week.

Perfume is a bloody horrible book as well. It made my skin crawl.

Weirdly, the animal cruelty in both of those books got into my head more than most of the human cruelty.

Not the same thing, but I was a mature 14 year old and I wanted to read Stephen King. Needless to say, a lot of it was too mature for me and I gave up.

By removing the book, she can get her hands on it elsewhere. Talk to her about the subject matter, she may still choose to read it. But she can also choose to give up on it.

What is it about it that interests her?

May I suggest Girlfriend in a Coma by Douglas Copland
One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest

Cuckoo's Nest is excellent. I read it when I was about 15, I think.

Hey Nostradamus by Douglas Coupland is also very good - violent but not graphically so, and with sympathetic characters and clever plotting.

I would not allow this.
Somehow I ended up taking out Casino Royale from our (middle) school library when I was about 12 and still remember being shocked at James bond’s meat and two veg getting pulverised in the torture scene. God only knows why they thought this was suitable reading material for middle school aged kids.

Anyhoo. If she wants gruesome, I’d second In Cold Blood. Or would something like “We need to talk about Kevin” be too much? I can’t quite remember how grim that one gets. Stephen King’s Misery I remember reading as a slightly older teenager and finding hilarious. And a darned sight less boring for a 13 year old than American Psycho with its lengthy descriptions of the thickness of business cards or the oeuvre of Whitney Houston, which will baffle her most likely.

What kind of books does she usually like? I got out of the habit of reading at her age because of the difficult bridge to adulthood. But I can think of several (non murder related) ones that might be suitable.

I second Chuck Palahniuk. What about Joyce Carol Oates? She creates brilliant, disturbed characters and is a very talented writer. Although not Zombie, that’s truly disturbing.

I don’t think she’s missing out by not reading Psycho, I read it as an adult and enjoyed the satire but overall it reallly is just gratuitous violence. The reader isn’t supposed to care about the main character, there’s no nuance and no real plot. Plus, BEE seems like a wanker in real life!

There are few books I’d censor but this is one of them. The violence is so graphic it made me put the book down and seriously consider not going on. I’ve never had such a violent reaction and reading literature is part of my job!

I would advise the Wasp Factory or Engleby which both have original and interesting fictional psychopaths with violence that is less extreme. Clockwork Orange and One Flew Over The Cuckoo ‘s Nest also good. Rather than ban it I’d take the line that she can read it once she’s read some of its literary precursors, and some related novels. In about five years ‘ time!

We Need to Talk About Kevin is also very dark. There’s the horrible scene where he deliberately continues to masturbate even though he knows his mother can see him which is quite disturbing for a young teen, I would’ve thought. Not to mention what he does at the end to his little sister...

DS, who’s 14, read Brave New World in Yr 8 and I had a few qualms about that, never mind books like this. And I’m an English teacher so very much in favour of him reading voraciously. But I do think there are some books that just aren’t suitable for younger teens, just as I’m always a bit sad when my Yr 10s talk about watching Game of Thrones. Why does everything have to be experienced so quickly and so early now?

I remember reading AP on a train and wanting to throw the fucking thing out of the window. Far and away the nastiest thing I’ve ever read, and whether the whole thing was a fantasy in PB’s head, that story came out of Bret Easton Ellis’s head, and it’s sick. I think the violence is too horrible and that the supposed parody of 1990’s one-upmanship culture will probably go over a 2010’s teenager’s head.

I read a lot of Stephen King from teenage, and still do. Although he writes horror, he’s also (in my opinion) a cracking storyteller. How about The Stand or ‘Salem’s Lot to start. Both long reads, but totally absorbing.

Sherratt & Hughes blithely sold me a copy of 'The 120 Days of Sodom' when I was 14. Reading it was something of an eye-opener, but it didn't traumatise me.

No not We Need to Talk About Kevin, a lot of very dark and disturbing stuff in it.
Stephen King, maybe to some of the milder ones.

I read American Psycho shortly after it was written when I was at university. It's not scary but it is disturbing and repulsive. I've never understood why it was critically lauded either. It's basically a series of descriptions of sexual torture with a social commentary about yuppies on the side, occasionally funny but nothing very deep or meaningful. It is unfortunately quite readable, I found it hard to put down even while I hated reading it and have regretted it ever since (which I can't say for any other book I've read). Really nasty images.

If I was wanting to put off a teenager I'd tell them about the scene when he kills a dog for fun. I doubt very much if either of my teens would pick it up after that as animal cruelty isn't something either of them cope with very well.

Re more appropriate books, my dd (also interested in psychopaths) enjoyed I Hunt Killers a few years ago. I think it's YA. Clockwork Orange is also an excellent if challenging book and interesting too (how much should the state intervene with free will). Not sure I'd recommend it to a 13 year old though. We watched the movie, which is disturbing but excellent, with dd when she was about 15 I think.

Another one saying do not let her read. I read it 20 years ago when I was in my 20s and just this thread has brought back flashbacks in my head.

I'd steer her firmly towards True Crime. As a PP said, Capote's "In Cold Blood" was the genre definer, but you really need to keep this anchored in reality with the emphasis on 'harm done' don't you? Rather than fictional torture-porn.

"Helter Skelter" was about the Bianca-Tate (Manson family) murders and was written by the prosecutor. That might also be a better substitute.