Dog bite

[TheWormThatTurned]

I just typed a post that was way too long...

So, can I ask the dog owners out there:
If your dog bit another dog, in an unprovoked attack, and caused an injury, who is responsible to pay for vet fees?

For background:
Our dog is small (20lb, terrier), barks way too much, but generally ok around other dogs.
The dog that bit him is a Siberian husky, handled by 2 kids aged 10 &12. The dogs weren't playing, we were walking by their house as they were returning from a walk.

Owners of husky are taking the attitude of "she's never done it before". We're not paying a penny of the vet bill. Your dog barks and upsets her.
I'm thinking that there were young children around, and it was totally unprovoked.
It wasn't like she just growled / warned him, she went for him and bit him, he's got 5 stitches on his neck, a whole host of medicines over Christmas and we've got decent sized vet bill.

Vet has advised us to go to the police, which we're doing tomorrow. The owners are our neighbours, so I really don't want any hard feelings, but I also think they are in denial about what their dog did and how much worse it could have been.

Just looking for some sane advice from worldly dog owners about how to proceed,
Thanks in advance for any advice!!

Sorry for not getting back sooner... Christmas visitors...

To clarify: both dogs were on a lead. The husky was on one of those retractable leads, so when it lunged at our dog from several feet away, the 12 year old holding the lead couldn't stop it in time and that's when it bit our dog.
It happened on the side of the road, near both our houses, but technically not on either property.

Thanks everyone for your input, very appreciative of the different perspectives.

We have reported it to the police, who can't take it further, but do hold all the details on file.

Why can't the police take it further?

In that case the other dog owners is at fault for not controlling their dog.
The retractable leads are horrible with a strong dog. They either break so dog can go as far as it wants or its difficult to stop.

Have you spoken to the dog warden about it?

Are you sure of the child's age? Do the police know it?

My understanding is that children under the age of 13 cannot legally be in sole control of a dog.

It's a shame the police can't do anything.

In Scotland we have the Control of Dogs ( Scotland) Act 2010, which basically says if your dog is out of control in a public place, and causes fear and alarm, a Dog Control Notice can be issued where the owner can be ordered to muzzle, keep dog on lead, attend training classes or whatever. Out of control dogs can be reported to Procurator Fiscal via police.
My last rescue dog was reactive to other dogs and I kept her on a lead and muzzled, not because I was made to, just because she was unpredictable.
If she had ever attacked another dog, it would IMO be my responsibility to pay.

You were both in the wrong I'm afraid. Your dog was bitten BECAUSE it barked at the bigger dog. Had your dog not started trouble with the husky, then in all likelihood you'd have walked past with no trouble.

You know how your dog behaves so from now on you need to act accordingly. You don't know how another dog will react to your dog's "aggression" so avoid confrontation or train your dog not to bark (it's do-able with kindness and patience, we have a fear aggressive dog who no longer barks but stands quietly while the other dog passes and is rewarded with praise and treats for doing so).

Until your dog stops this behaviour, use avoidance techniques; cross road, keep dog on short lead, a firm "no" when it barks at other dogs.

You can blame the kids with the husky if it makes you feel better, but I'm sure you realise you and your dog were the instigators of this (preventable) event. My advice is to accept some responsibility and that you are unreasonable to expect your neighbors to pay when you are an adult, they are children (admittedly irresponsible to leave them with such a big dog, but that was the situation you walked into) and your actions could have prevented the incident occurring as you know your dog and how it behaves.

What absolute bollocks, Sleep.

Lots of dogs are barky. The other dog was out of control. It is in no way OPs fault.

I am the owner of a fear aggressive dog Valerrie. He has been attacked 3 times. Each time he was attacked it was caused by his aggressive behaviour towards the dog that bit him. Had he not been aggressive, then he wouldn't have been bitten. There are lots of "barky" dogs and this should be addressed. If your dog is aggressive (barky, such a sweet term) then they risk barking at a dog who is either fear aggressive themselves and defends by biting, or dominant and therefore will put "lil' Barky' in their place in the way that dogs do.

You come across a little bit "barky'" yourself, so here's a firm "no" from me (now back to your crate).

Sleep, you're a dick. Your attempt to patronise me is pathetic.

If your dog has been bitten so many times, you've allowed this to happen. The fact that you blame your on lead dog speaks volumes.

I have a lot of experience with dogs as a trainer, show dog owner, breeder and worker. If my barky dog is on a lead and under control, my job is done. If someone chooses to let their out of control dog approach mine when it is barking and on lead and is wearing a yellow lead, then that is their problem.

To suggest this is OPs fault because her dog barked, when the husky was out of control and in the charge of minors, shows your level of intelligence.

Agree with Sleep a bit - owners who have barky dogs who go up to other dogs and bark at them do need to take responsibility for their own dogs behaviour.

How would you like it if you were walking down the street minding your own business and someone came up and started shouting in your face for no reason? Dogs can display aggression without biting.

The dog was on a lead. It didn't "go up" to the husky.

I wonder if the argument is that the "biting" dog was standing outside it's own house, and the op's dog was being walked past, and started barking aggressively? I think people with aggressively barking dogs should give others a wide berth, not insist on walking closely past them.

I'm not excusing the biting, I'm really not. I think the children are too young to be in charge, and I hate those extendable leads. But I too am fed up of meeting people with very aggressive small dogs who are excused their behaviour because they are small and only barking. What Zube said really.

valerrie A dog on a lead can still approach another dog - owners often let dogs on leads walk up to other dogs (surely you'd know this happens as your a dog trainer...).

Valerrie, do you know what irony is. Irony is calling someone a "dick" which is dickish behavior in itself.

My dog no longer barks at other dogs. In the three instances he has been bitten it has been during play when off lead and the other dog has displayed dominant behaviour which he has reacted to with fear aggression. As a "trainer/Crufts champion breeder/astronaut/whatever else you want to claim but can't substantiate" you'll be well versed in this normal dog behavior.

My dog is kept under control (muzzled as is a sight hound) on walks and, since he has stopped displaying fear aggression, has not been bitten. I let him off lead to play with dogs he and I are familiar with and closely monitor new relationships.

Frankly, telling us you think barking at other dogs is behaviour that doesn't need addressing tells me everything I need to know about your level of expertise on this subject.

Why wont the police take it further as there is no legal age for dog walking unless there is an accident. They are not usually interested in dog on dog attacks unless a person is injured or was in fear of being injured.

If there was an accident caused by the dog (traffic or a person injured), they could then prosecute for the dog being out of control.

Morally they should pay the vet bills for your dogs injuries, but I doubt you can force this. You should also look at training your dog so he doesn't bark at other dogs.

I have a small barky dog. Trust me, we have spent countless hours and money on trainers trying to stop him from being barky. He is never ever allowed off lead in public. Ever. He is walked in a slip lead crossed under his chin and over his nose. When he is being good it is completely loose, when he is barking, pressure is instantly applied. It prevents him from barking as loudly (or biting). If I see another dog on the street, I either cross over or I walk in the road until they are passed and if it’s a quiet spot, traffic wise, I wait behind a parked car so the dogs can’t see each other. He is never allowed near another dog which is on a lead. Where I live it is not legal to have your dog off lead unless in a designated area. I never walk him in these designated areas. There are big signs everywhere which say all dogs must be on a lead.

Yet still I have encountered a similar situation to the OP. Children in charge of a big dog who has just pulled the lead right out of their hand and charged towards us. I put my dog behind me and yell and stamp my foot at the other dog. So far it has worked as a deterrent and they have kept away but I dread the day that comes when it doesn’t work.

In OPs situation, the husky owner should pay. Doesn’t matter if OPs dog provoked, the husky shouldn’t have been able to touch her dog. Completely irresponsible of the owners to a) have it on a retractable lead, that would be nothing for a husky to break that and b) have it walked by children not strong enough to control it.

Go to the police. This dog obviously can not be controlled by the children walking it. The owners should pay the bill. And the dog needs to be muzzled.

Sleep - pray do tell me where I said that the barking doesn't need addressing?

No, of course I have no experience. You know me SO well.

Sleep - every word you write further displays your ignorance. I’d stop now if I were you.

Valerrie. "If my barky dog is on a lead and under control, my job is done." ...in answer to your question.

You have addressed my opinion as "bollocks", called me a "dick" and decided I must be "stupid" because my opinion differs to yours. That's what I know about you.....and that's plenty 'nough!

MoKnickers, another expert yeah? Just what the internet needs.

Let's reverse the situation.

My kids were holding our dog outside our house on a lead. Neighbor walks by and her dog begins barking aggressively. My dog is protective of my kids and it's home and saw the other dog off it's territory. Kids were scared and unable to stop the fight. Other dog's owner expects me to pay her vets bills and has reported my children to the police. Children are scared their beloved pet will be put to sleep. My dog has never bitten before and was protecting her family and home from threat. How can I reason with neighbor and make her see that her dog's aggression caused the situation?

That's my dog, not the OP's dog. How do you know what I've done to address mine? That's right. You don't.
The more you type, the more I realise that my initial impression was correct.

Even when the situation is reversed, it's the fault of the husky owners. The husky was being held by their children and should nev never have been.

That's after I got through the terrible grammar.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou while I agree OP needs to stop her dog barking, the fact is that if the husky had had an adult or even a child large enough to keep it under control holding the lead, the bite wouldn’t have happened. Huskies are very large and strong (have had a husky type before) and also wilful so need very careful handling and also someone who knows what they’re doing at the end of the lead.

Kids were scared and unable to stop the fight

Bit rich taking the moral high ground with anyone when you put your children and your dog in this position!

Oh well then since we’re going to imagine stuff, let’s imagine the OPs dog was only barking because it was protecting the OP from the bigger dog. I expect the Husky looked at it funny 😏

A dog attacking another for barking is NOT reasonable or appropriate.

Terrible grammar? As in writing "nev never" you mean Valerrie? Good you're here to direct me.

I fi find that when peop people ha have to pick up on gram grammatical errors in another's post then that is because they have no sus sustainable arg argument. Likewise name calling and addressing supposed levels of intelligence, same tactic.

I read your statement to mean that your job was done because your barky dog was on a lead. While we're on grammar, job done = no further action required. Hope that helps.