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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

freezing to death

64 replies

Greenshoots1 · 27/12/2017 22:09

This is the sixth individual I have heard of freezing to death on the street in the last three weeks.

I haven't been at work today, but a friend who works in the same homeless shelter has just rung up and told me.

2 people in their 30s, 1 in their 40s, 3 in their 50s, 2 woman 4 men, 2 drinkers, 4 not drinkers,

if any of that makes any difference.

Are we being unreasonable to allow this to be happening in the uk.

obviously yes

OP posts:
RunningOutOfCharge · 27/12/2017 23:16

babs one report says the men had secured places but didn't return to use them

mummyrabbitpeppapig · 27/12/2017 23:16

Do they have 'male only' and ' female only' hostels? ( Off to Google )

Rubies12345 · 27/12/2017 23:19

Let's be generous and non-judgmental with our fivers

I don't see how a fiver could fix this. Sounds like a serious problem, I wonder what we could do?

GrockleBocs · 27/12/2017 23:19

Councils or charities have to run the shelters, find the rough sleepers etc. Funding cuts make councils cut services to the bone. Support services are cut etc.

BabsCabsIsLocal · 27/12/2017 23:21

Thanks for the clarification Running

mummyrabbitpeppapig · 27/12/2017 23:22

Another random thought ( and probably no good for the winter plus not thought of where they could 'pitch' them but, what about donating all the stuff like tents from festivals like Glastonbury I'm sure i heard there's lots of tents etc just abandoned afterwards......

Original poster
Greenshoots1 · 27/12/2017 23:24

Is there anything individuals can do to help Greenshoots?

There is the Crisis "everybody in" campaign. you can sign up. You can write to your MP and donate to effective individual homeless charities, too, of course, but Crisis re a big organisation with more weight than most, and a good understanding of how to support individuals and how to campaign politically.

In London, there are others, St Mungos, winter shelters that try and get people into permanent homes, there is probably one local to you. YMCA, Shelter, the salvation army are brilliant, not least because they can take the drinkers, and some of the more aggressive individuals out of the general shelters, so more people are likely to enter the general shelters, like the SWEPs

There is "refugees at home" or "nightstop" if you have a spare room and are prepared to offer it to someone who would otherwise have no where to go.

You can offer hot food and drink or a hat and gloves etc to homeless people yourselves, with caution. Most are just normal people , but there are a few individuals who can be aggressive.

Thank you for asking, if anything else occurs to me I'll post it.

Basically though, it shouldn't be down to individuals, it shouldn't be happening. Its so crazy.

OP posts:
Bunglecunt · 27/12/2017 23:25

The shelters near me charge £12 per night, in a place where begging is a criminal offence how are people supposed to pay that? The demonisation of the poor and homeless in this country is disgusting, fuck the Tories

SomeOldFogey · 27/12/2017 23:27

Obviously homelessness is ludicrous in Britain and it shouldn't be happening, particularly not in these temperatures: but as a small help, some people are setting up coat rails in some places. Perhaps anyone who's gone one spare can set up something similar?
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/coat-exchange-homeless-people-winter_uk_58773013e4b09642a34f519c

BabsCabsIsLocal · 27/12/2017 23:28

Not Shelter. They only help people the council will help. They don't run any actual shelters either. They think families in b&b's need more help than individuals on the streets.
Local grassroots charities often much better.

Original poster
Greenshoots1 · 27/12/2017 23:32

Not Shelter. They only help people the council will help. They don't run any actual shelters either. They think families in b&b's need more help than individuals on the streets.

but everyone they move one rung up the ladder int permanent housing leaves a space on a lower rung where someone sleeping rough can move up into - if that makes any sense. not sure I am explaining myself very well, but hope you get what I mean.

OP posts:
Tedster77 · 27/12/2017 23:37

It’s a massively complex issue which needs huge investment in a multi agency approach to sort out - and I mean right from early intervention childhood services - services I see being cut back all the time.

However - this complexity makes some of these people extremely hard to help. One of the men who died over the Christmas period I know through my job was exactly the sort of man society wants hung, drawn and quartered and there’s a huge issue with many of this circle being high on Spice and massively abusive to other vulnerable people. We have pretty good services for the homeless in this town which means this man and others like him settled here and yet still things ended in tragedy....

Ideally things would never have got this bad for those people, but they did and they died. And more people will die as services are cut and children grow up in circumstances leading some of them to addiction and becoming perpetrators of DV themselves.

PerkingFaintly · 27/12/2017 23:41

This article's from a year ago when Universal Credit was much less common, so things will be getting worse now.

Rough sleeping on rise in Birmingham after cuts to services for homeless
www.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/02/rough-sleeping-on-rise-in-birmingham-after-cuts-to-homelessness-services

Fraser said the notion of ending street homelessness had felt “tantalisingly close” in 2009. “It is really bleak because we felt as though we had made vast strides. I wouldn’t say we had solved homelessness, but we had got it to manageable levels and made huge progress until 2009. Then the cuts started and since then homelessness has increased,” he said.

BabsCabsIsLocal · 27/12/2017 23:44

I understand the concept, Greenshoots, but unfortunately it doesn't work like that. Families are considered "priority need" and thus the council MUST put a roof over their head, even if it's just a b&b. They have no such duty to most adults with no children living with them. So these adults don't get to take the vacated emergency housing.

When the council turned their back on me, so did Shelter, for that very reason, just as I really needed them.

Original poster
Greenshoots1 · 27/12/2017 23:52

thats really bad, Babs, but we do have families with children sleeping rough as well, though, so they can possibly get BandB if it is vacated.

The youngest rough sleeper I have encountered in London this year was 2 years old....

OP posts:
Xihha · 28/12/2017 00:04

It is very sad obviously but I'm volunteering in a winter shelter and we have spaces, I can't work it out.

My friend died whilst sleeping rough, I've been homeless too, it's why I volunteer. I do overnights and can 100% say it is safe but I know there are homeless people who are choosing not to come, and i know some of that is because we do not allow alcohol or drugs but there has to be something I am missing here, places are free so its not a cost thing

inconspicuousrhino · 28/12/2017 00:12

The youngest rough sleeper I have encountered in London this year was 2 years old....

What??? I assume the parent(s) hid this fact from SS?

Birdsgottafly · 28/12/2017 00:20

"It is very sad obviously but I'm volunteering in a winter shelter and we have spaces, I can't work it out."

You say that drugs and alcohol aren't allowed, but do you have other criteria?

In my City, Liverpool, our Mayor has been criticised because he allowed the opening of 'illegal' shelter, who take people who have " no recourse to public funds".

This is partly in response to a Czech man dying of exposure because he wasn't entitled to any help. It shocked many people that we will leave people on the streets to die. The Homeless charities had helped, but they couldn't do anymore than just prop' him up'. We aren't meant to live outdoors, we are damaged by exposure and hats and thermal sleeping bags won't totally solve that.

When I worked in Welfare advice, we would have Homeless people come in. One man had been institutionalised all of his life because he had LDs and had fallen through the safety net and then fobbed off.
He was terrified of being locked up again, so would sleep rough rather than go into a shelter. A lot of ex Prisoners feel the same.

As said there is violence and bullying, as well as sexual assaults in Shelters.

Birdsgottafly · 28/12/2017 00:22

" Families are considered "priority need" and thus the council MUST put a roof over their head, even if it's just a b&b. "

In theory, but in practice they are often told that there aren't spaces anywhere, were the children can still go to school. If the family haven't got the money to travel to the accommodation, no help is often offered.

Pretenditsaplan · 28/12/2017 00:23

Its ironic our town went viral before christmas vecause some one saw a statur thats sat on a bench covered in snow and rang the emergency services thinking itbwas a person drozen to death. Every one mocked her. 2 days later a homeless man was found frozen to a bench and no one could understand how no one called those same emergency services

OhYouBadBadKitten · 28/12/2017 00:38

Thank you for the ideas Greenshoots, I live in an area where homelessness tends to be a hidden issue, with people sofa surfing, but I'm sure I don't need to go far to where people don't even have that option.
You are right, it shouldn't be down to individuals. That's just a sticking plaster on a very broken system.

gillybeanz · 28/12/2017 00:43

I think that all we can do is actually hand warm clothes and hot water bottles out to people. give them a flask.
Businesses open all night could offer free hot water, it isn't that expensive, I know Maccies does.
Educate them how to stay warm, leaflets a free helpline/ contact points.
I know it's not always addicts who are homeless, but these are even more vulnerable as they don't go back to where they had an offer because they can't take drugs, drink alcohol or in the case of the nearest one to me, beg on the streets.
We used to be able to leave bags of clothes, blankets, even carrier bags and padding. That's not possible as with terror threats, packages are quite often detonated, especially during high security, like in Manchester.
It wasn't cold then but the homeless lost a lot of their help for quite some time.

Skowvegas · 28/12/2017 00:58

It's very very cold where I live (currently -19C and not going to go above -10C all week) and they work really hard to get all the homeless people into shelters every night. It's rare for people to freeze to death here.

Lalliella · 28/12/2017 09:28

It’s an absolute disgrace that in a so-called civilised country people are dying on the streets while properties stand empty because they’ve been bought as investments. The level of inequality in this country is staggering and disgusting, and people stand by and let it happen.

Scabbersley · 28/12/2017 09:34

But there are places available. We don't allow drugs or alcohol which does mean some will not stay. I can't think of another reason. The shelter I have volunteered at is very safe

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