to hope the Foreign Office don't waste any time on Laura Plummer...

[PiffleandWiffle]

She was stupid enough to smuggle drugs into a country against their laws, got caught & got sentenced.

BBC Link

Cue the predictable wailing & cries of "it's not fair" from the family!

Personally, I'd rather the Foreign Office spent it's time trying to help people who are genuinely in trouble abroad rather than idiots drug smugglers....

I find it really suprising that you all think that 3 years in jail is an appropriate and proportionate punishment. Even if she did obtain them illegally. She isnt a dealer. Its a victimless crime

Interesting that something like 90% of men in prison are there for violent crime; whilst 90% of eomen are in for NON-violent crime

They are basic questions oliversmummy but if you've got through life healthily (I've got to 40 and other than a c-section and a broken leg) AND you're not very worldly/naive then you may not have questioned it.

To most of us that would be crazy but it is possible.

She was quoted, which may be incorrect, as saying 'I've done nothing wrong' which I hope is incorrect journalism. She did do something wrong whether knowingly or not.

No such thing as "dealing" in law.

Possession, possession with intent to supply, supply in English law.

Supply does not need to be paid supply and can include giving drugs to mates.

She was definitely in possession and she intended to supply.

In the UK, people have been charged with possession with intent to supply for a lot less.

Drugs like Tramadol can kill when used inappropriately. That is the reason they are Controlled Drugs.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-41102581

My understanding is that being in possession of more than a certain amount of a substance is treated as possession with intent to supply.
I don't know what the thresholds are but in this case for instance if the threshold was 50 tablets then anything more than that Would be treated as intent to supply rather than just possession for personal use.

olivers loads of drugs that are available to us in the UK/Europe, are not available in other parts of the world. This includes really badic life saving medications. Being unavailable/illegal doesnt make something immoral

I would imagine the conversations went; boyfriend complaining of chronic pain/meds from dr not working. LP discudsing with people in UK who have back/pain conditions and finds many recommend tramadol. LP suggests to BF. BF adks his doctor and finds it is not available in Egypt. LP keen to telief her bf pain, takes some over for him

Daft, illegal but driven by good intentions/motivations and definitely not needing a 3 year jail term to 'correct' her

Its a victimless crime

If the drugs were originally obtained via an NHS prescription, that's money the NHS now doesn't have to spend on people who are entitled to NHS care and genuinely need it.

And that's assuming they really were for the bf's personal use and he wasn't going to sell them on.

I wonder if UK police are now looking into the question of who supplied the drugs at this end, and whether any money changed hands?

I don't think it's a case of it being an appropriate punishment, Norethisterone. It's not our place to decide that - it's Egyptian law and Egyptian judges who get to decide that. That was the risk she took in taking drugs to a foreign country, and a strict Islamic one at that. If you're not prepared to take the risk of being judged by the standards and punishments of where you go, don't do it, or don't go.

*I would imagine the conversations went; boyfriend complaining of chronic pain/meds from dr not working. LP discudsing with people in UK who have back/pain conditions and finds many recommend tramadol. LP suggests to BF. BF adks his doctor and finds it is not available in Egypt. LP keen to telief her bf pain, takes some over for him

Daft, illegal but driven by good intentions/motivations and definitely not needing a 3 year jail term to 'correct' her*

Totally agree.

We have a box of about 160 Tramadol in our kitchen. They were prescribed by our Vet for our dog following an operation. They didn't agree with her so we hardly used any. It's not much of a leap to imagine a situation where someone might see them and ask if they could have them because their bf has a really bad back. Obviously I wouldn't give them to anyone but I imagine lots of people would.

She may have broken the law but I hope the FCO intervenes to at least make sure she has access to medical help and food. And that she is held somewhere where her life isn't at risk.

I don't think it's a case of it being an appropriate punishment, Norethisterone. It's not our place to decide that - it's Egyptian law and Egyptian judges who get to decide that. That was the risk she took in taking drugs to a foreign country, and a strict Islamic one at that. If you're not prepared to take the risk of being judged by the standards and punishments of where you go, don't do it, or don't go
rebecca...i find it hard to accept that this is really your opinion. There are countries where infidelity or homosexuality is against the law, and the punishment is death. I dont honestly believe posters really think 'well dont do it then, or accept the consequences'. I think actually you do believe this to be appropriate and proportionate for LP?

ohtuna
Not just quantity but also circumstances.

I know people who have been charged with intent to supply with small quantities and vice versa.

IMHO, If it was just quantity then LP would be classed as intent to supply with 290 tablets.

Infact, Egypt is a place you can go to jail for homosexuality;

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/03/egypt-jails-eight-men-gay-marriage-ceremony-nile

No, you're not hearing me properly. I think my view is irrelevant precisely because i am not an Egyptian judge. I could rant and scream all day on the internet about whether it's just right or not harsh enough or sickeningly harsh - it's irrelevant.

The point is that you have to respect other countries if you go there, or you will fall foul of the law. I have many gay friends who won't holiday in the Caribbean, for example - partly out of fear of reprisals and partly because they don't want to support somewhere that outlaws homosexuality. Similarly even though it's pretty low risk, DP and I won't go to Dubai because we aren't a married couple.

You don't have to agree with the laws, and you can do what you can to campaign for change. But typing on mumsnet about it being inappropriate isn't the point and it isn't going to change anything. The point is that she broke a foreign law, and it's for that country to sentence her, not us.

I can't believe the number of people who think that LP had no idea what she was doing and she was innocently helping her BF.

Surely she put the word Tramadol into Google at some point??

Tramadol is a particularly nasty drug in overdose, even only slight overdose if you are taking any other serotonin affecting drugs such as SSRIs as it can cause seizures.

RebecaaSlicker
My friends are going to Qatar in February to see his DD.

My friends got married (M & F) in September but if they had not they would be staying in separate rooms even though they have lived together for 10 years.

Even though the DD has room in her accommodation, her DF cannot sleep there as another woman lives there.

To me it is stupid but I have enough respect to know that my opinion is irrelevant and the laws and rules in that country should be obeyed.

Just because the UK bends over backwards to please everybody including lawbreakers, it doesn't mean that we should expect other countries to do the same.

Absolutely. It's horribly sad - and there are far sadder cases than this one - but you have to be very naive or very arrogant to assume that you can apply British laws and tolerances to other countries.

I do find it difficult to reconcile live and let live and respect for other cultures/countries when they do something I simply cannot agree with, e.g. lashing homosexuals or stoning women/enforcing covering up.

Norethisterone I was trying to say if something was not available in a country I would maybe ask if not why not and check if it was an actual legal substance.

Surely she googled it???

Not necessarily. The phrase 'we can't get that drug here, it's not available' doesn't necessarily imply it's illegal.

I agree that most people would have found out, but some people wouldn't (lacking in common sense/knowledge/naivety). I'm just saying her story is possible. It seems crazy and somewhat unlikely and very bad luck/stupid if so...

Oliversmumsarmy - yes most of us would (which I presume is one of the many reasons you aren't mumsnetting from some foreign jail!) but from what the family say it is entirely possible that LP wasn't that kind of person. She still lives at home and so probably hasn't had to do many of the life skill tasks most adults do (paying bills, paperwork etc) and generally been protected from the evils of the world by her close knit family. She just may not be that type of character (independent, common sense, worldly knowledge). Uncommon but possible.

Sorry to change the subject slightly bug have you ever been to the NHS pain clinic?
*
I have got an appointment next week and I was just wondering how helpful they are*

No I haven't Persian - NHS pain clinic provision was so scanty when it was deemed appropriate by my surgeon that I move to a pain clinic setting, that I went straight to private, as my health insurance covered it at the time.

My pain consultant used to run a pain clinic in a large NHS teaching hospital, but ended up leaving the NHS because there just wasn't the funding for pain medicine for trainees, so many pain clinics were shutting due to funding. I had a number of interventional pain management procedures that are hypothetically available on the NHS, but without the waiting times

My medications are prescribed by my GP but all management is done by the consultant because the GPs don't really understand how to use them for advanced chronic pain management? and just ask for the consultant to issue a letter for them to follow.

I've no experience of NHS pain clinic provision - but it's the same consultants you get in private practice, but with longer waiting times. I don't jump the queue with my private care as I've never had any NHS treatment for my pain management, only ever my GP in primary care (before I get accused of queue jumping for going private). Really hope they can help you!

I agree that most people would have found out, but some people wouldn't
Surely when you discover that you can’t buy tramadol over the counter and you set out to find someone who can provide you with a large number of prescription only drugs without a prescription you begin to question the legality of your actions.

lacking in common sense/knowledge/naivety
But not the ability to deliberately acquire a prescription only drug illegally?

So she's a naive homebody, but she also flies to and from Egypt on a regular basis
Are those two things not mutually exclusive, or at the very least somewhat incompatible?

bananafish81
Thanks, I am hoping it will be a bit like the CMHT and ADHD "specialist" who just initially diagnose and prescribe and then pass it back to the GP for prescriptions.

May I ask, have you ever had Butrans (buprenorphine) patches for pain at all?

I thought it was interesting that her sister is quoted as saying that Laura has met her boyfriend's family and children and although he's married he is allowed girlfriends. Anyone who has seen these kinds of relationships first hand knows that he's allowed girlfriends because he makes money from them.