Posting here for traffic - I'm finding it hard to cope with my DD1's violence towards me and DD2.

[Lizzie48]

I've posted this on the adoption board but I'm posting it here too looking for a response as I'm finding this really hard right now.

I'm really at the end of my strength with my DD1, because of the way she's lashing out when she's angry.

My 2 DDs are adopted so behavioural issues have more complex routes than for children brought up by their biological parents so please don't judge my DD1 (8) too harshly. She's been diagnosed with Attachment Disorder and with SPD so life has been challenging to say the least.

She's been violent towards me and my DD2 on and off the last few years and it gets worse when she's not in her usual routine, ie school. We've been waiting for her to have therapy for some time, and it's finally going to start in the New Year, thankfully.

We’ve had some really bad behaviour from her the last few days. She’s had massive meltdowns and yesterday, just before church, she launched herself at tme and punched me hard twice and would have gone on if I hadn’t pulled away. And she regularly throws things and hurts her little sister, though she’s less aggressive with her from what I can see.

It’s becoming more scary because she’s now 8 years old and is growing stronger all the time. And although she hasn’t yet really hurt her sister, it’s becoming more of a safety issue as she gets older.

She's so vulnerable at the same time. She so often throws at me, 'You only care about (DD2) not me.' That's because she has consequences for her behaviour, which DD2 doesn't have as she doesn't behave in the same way that DD1 does.

Any advice on strategies we could use to deal with her behaviour would be very much appreciated.

is she on the autistic spectrum too? It sounds very much like it to me

Is she medicated for anything. It sounds to me like this would be beneficial

Thank you, Branleuse, we have wondered about that, yes. No she's not on medication, they don't offer that for Attachment Disorder. We do need a proper assessment; the school won't do a referral, as they don't see the meltdowns. We were on a child in need plan with SS, because of other issues, so they do know. Getting any help from school has been hard, as she doesn't qualify for an ECHP because she's too bright; children have to be 2 years behind for that. She's functioning at 1 year behind apparently.

Thank you for your support, ChipInTheSugar.

Aspergers and autism do present very differently in girls, but I imagine they also present completely differently in someone with attachment disorder.
We went through GP, then CAMHS rather than the school for help with our DD.

Thank you, haba, that's really helpful. We definitely need to ask for some investigation. I've really appreciated the help and advice I've had on here.

Have you heard of the Coventry Grid Lizzie / it's useful for pinpointing the different behaviours of adhd/autism x

Thank you again, ChipInTheShoulder, no, I've never heard of that; I'll take a look.

Well, this is a shit-storm of a morning
He's refusing to get dressed for school. Telling me to hit him (!!) and then he'll behave (wtf). Following me round hitting and kicking at me. Taking my hand to try and hit himself with it.

I'm sick of being told I'm doing a good job with him when all I get back is basically an abusive relationship.

First of all, you are clearly a wonderful human being for taking in two kids from a broken home and giving them a second chance in life, taking on all the accompanying risks in doing so. If only there were more people like you.

To me the most interesting and telling quote in this thread is that your DD1 told your DD2 that she didn't have to behave any more when she was outside of school. That, to my mind, suggests DD1 is far more in control of her actions than might initially appear to be the case and is actually far more capable of connecting the consequences of her actions in her own mind. School is presumably a more punitive environment with harsher consequences for violence than her home environment, where she is being met with understanding and love and tolerance. I would be inclined to explore this more with her - why does she feel she doesn't have to behave outside of school but recognises she does need to at school? I'm not arguing against the "safe space"/"quiet zone" idea but I think it needs to be paired with a punitive element to so that she realises violence towards you and your younger daughter is not acceptable and that she can't just expect it to constantly be met with understanding and reassurance.

Good luck to you anyway, I hope you get some more support and that things work out in the long run.

you dont medicate for autism or attachment disorder, but if there is ADHD or anxiety alongside it, then that could be a reason for medication.

I'm sorry, ChipInTheSugar, that's a tough start to the day. I've had DD1 refusing to go to school. One of us has been known to go ahead with DD2 so she's not late as well. for you.

Thank you, AHungryMum, that's a kind thing to say. Although I admit that when we applied to adopt we didn't know exactly what we were letting ourselves in for. That's a helpful suggestion as well. We do dock £1 from her pocket money per incident, so she had no pocket money this week (they get £5 per week normally). She didn't cope very well. But, very touchingly, DD2 bought a chocolate egg for her out of her pocket money.

Another potential resource for you Lizzie - I've just spoken to Young Minds Parentline. They're setting up a return call from one of their professionals to talk through some more suggestions for strategies etc. 0808 802 5544

Thank you, definitely worth a try, ChipInTheSugar.

There's a fb page called Connective Parenting using NVR - on it there is a questionnaire about child-to-parent violence/aggression. You might be interested in filling it in x

Thank you, I've asked to join the page, it looks like it will be very helpful.

It would be very unusual for a child with ADHD to have the abiliity to behave well at school on a consistent basis.
Unusual, maybe, but not unheard of, especially with girls who are often distracted/inattentive but not actively disruptive so their "dreaminess" or lack of rootedness in the classroom is often overlooked. The idea of OP's DD bottling everything up until she gets home sounds very familiar.

I don't know if anyone else has said this but when I was that age I had already realised that church and religion was a load of sky fairies to me. As she had a problem before church is it her just trying to tell you she is not interested? Is her other problems also related to your religious beliefs?

No she loves going to her Sunday School class, and she's in the children's choir, which she really enjoys that. She sometimes resists getting ready, but only in the way she resists getting ready for school.

Thank you, matchingmoll, that was very helpful.

Not sure if you're still checking this thread but if you are, have a look at www.bibic.org.uk x

There's also a fb group called Breaking the silence on SEnd VCB.

Thank you, ChipInTheSugar, I've now signed up with them, they look like they could be very helpful.

I'm just going to keep adding resources/info here ...

Have a look at www.alcoates.co.uk (Al Coates - misadventures of an adoptive dad)

Thank you again, @ChipInTheSugar that looks very helpful.

Things appear to be going better. The consequence of taking £1 off her pocket money with every outburst of actual violence seems to be working better now. If I can warn her before she actually lashes out, she can control herself.

I also have to stand strong and calm, that makes a difference.

Update: we've had a very tough few days, it's always tricky at half term and we came back from a lovely few days with their cousins. That always leads to tricky times. She just got into such a state, lashing out in the car on the way back, and at home. But what really made me sad was when she was comparing herself to her little sister, who doesn't lash out, and she said, 'I can't control it, I was born different.' That broke my heart. She was probably talking about the fact that she wears glasses and hearing aids but it shows she has some awareness that there's something wrong.

Transitions are always so hard - even when we think we can anticipate them

I guess all you can do is empathise with those feelings she has and "wonder" if there is anything you/she can do about them? Is there an adult outside of the family that could kind of mentor her?

My boy is at a similar point of "this is what I'm like, I can't change" in his mindset; I'm trying to remind him of strategies/alternatives to lashing out etc.

It's bloody tough. We have just started the process for an ehcp (if he's not excluded before it's done)and also an application to the adoption support fund for £5k worth of therapeutic support. Assessment can take up to six months but at least the ball is rolling. I'm holding out for DDP therapy - very much like PACE.

Hugs again, hang in there xx