Posting here for traffic - I'm finding it hard to cope with my DD1's violence towards me and DD2.

[Lizzie48]

I've posted this on the adoption board but I'm posting it here too looking for a response as I'm finding this really hard right now.

I'm really at the end of my strength with my DD1, because of the way she's lashing out when she's angry.

My 2 DDs are adopted so behavioural issues have more complex routes than for children brought up by their biological parents so please don't judge my DD1 (8) too harshly. She's been diagnosed with Attachment Disorder and with SPD so life has been challenging to say the least.

She's been violent towards me and my DD2 on and off the last few years and it gets worse when she's not in her usual routine, ie school. We've been waiting for her to have therapy for some time, and it's finally going to start in the New Year, thankfully.

We’ve had some really bad behaviour from her the last few days. She’s had massive meltdowns and yesterday, just before church, she launched herself at tme and punched me hard twice and would have gone on if I hadn’t pulled away. And she regularly throws things and hurts her little sister, though she’s less aggressive with her from what I can see.

It’s becoming more scary because she’s now 8 years old and is growing stronger all the time. And although she hasn’t yet really hurt her sister, it’s becoming more of a safety issue as she gets older.

She's so vulnerable at the same time. She so often throws at me, 'You only care about (DD2) not me.' That's because she has consequences for her behaviour, which DD2 doesn't have as she doesn't behave in the same way that DD1 does.

Any advice on strategies we could use to deal with her behaviour would be very much appreciated.

Have you tried melatonin for her sleep issues? It doesn't knock them out for the count, just brings on a more natural sleepiness. It's been a lifesaver in that respect here, taking it is part of his bedtime routine (Co-sleeping still ) but it's almost guaranteed that 20mins after taking it he's happy to snuggle down to sleep (as long as he's not alone!). It seems to stop the busy thoughts. I swear DS doesn't actually recognise when he's tired. And nothing physical seems to wear him out. A psychiatrist can prescribe or you can get gummy ones via the internet.

I follow the Therapeutic parenting fb page - it might be useful for you? They recommend a lot of "wondering" out loud about stuff to help the children talk about things. Also acknowledging/naming feelings. DS is on a real downer a lot of the time and it's hard not to "correct" him when he says he's got no friends or thinks he's the "stupidest kid ever". I try to respond with things like "That must be hard feeling like that..." or "It's sad that you feel that way" rather than "Of course you have friends!" etc. Lots of catching him being good, or others being kind/thoughtful towards him etc. No shaming.

CAMHS asked me at one point what emotional age I thought he is - my answer was around 3 years old. Sometimes that helps in figuring out some of his behaviour.

I'll try and find a link to the NVR stuff. Basically it's identifying one or two behaviours you really want to get rid of, you make an "announcement" to the child, you do not engage in any battle with them, you stage a "sit-in" to come up with ways for them to stop the behaviour (they have to suggest ways). Also, don't keep the violence a secret. Have someone to support you and talk to so your DD will know you're telling someone else (tricky not to a. shame them with this, and b. find someone who won't judge you).

Sorry, huge outpouring of thoughts!

oxleas.nhs.uk/advice-and-guidance/children-and-young-peoples-services/nvr/parent-booklets/

Oh thanks so much for that Chip - that is kind of what we've been trying - and I'm on an NVR group on FB - but it crystallises it for me.

We are isolating the violence against persons (hurting people, and throwing heavy objects at people) at the moment, so it's good to hear that tactic is correct! We are leaving aside general throwing, throwing soft objects at people, and spitting which are the next level of annoying.

Today DS poked me with a pencil (hard, on my chest, and I already have a cough so it hurt). I don't think he realised how badly he hurt me though and he felt quite sorry when he realised (by, er, poking himself with it to find out!). DH asked him whether he would do that to his class teacher and he seemed really ashamed to think about that and begged us not to tell him.
So, maybe, if we found a "supporter" that DS knows and trusts it would make him think again.

Sometimes the lesser behaviours resolve themselves as the bigger ones are dealt with Dr so fingers crossed that happens for you!

Thank you, ChipInTheSugar. I will take a look at that. This has been really helpful for me. What's helped is that my DH has witnessed it now. For a long time he didn't as she tended to do it during the period after school before he came home from work, so he didn't really get what I meant, so it was a lonely place to be.

http://www.academia.edu/13891779/PracticalStrategiessforCopinggwithChilddtoParenttViolence--theNonnViolentResistanceeProgrammeinnPractice

Another NVR link

I'm no expert but it sounds like she is in a vicious cycle of insecurity, lashing out, seeing you protect DD2 and getting jealous, which creates more anxiety and insecurity, and more "testing" of whether you are really committed to her.

That's not her fault, and the best thing to do imho is to try to break the cycle. Sometimes cold hard consequences and detachment do not achieve the right emotional impact for an emotionally disturbed and unloved child. Try talking to her about her feelings, and naming the cycle I have just described above. You would be amazed at how relieving it can be for children in emotional turmoil to have the feelings they are struggling with described back to them. Even if she doesn't respond at the time, it will all be sinking in and having a positive impact. It might just take some time for her to speak to you about it.

Above all, make sure she knows that no amount of pushing you away is going to diminish your love or commitment to her.

And if you impose rigid routines on the children, try easing up a little bit with her if she isnt coping.

I think it would be very helpful to investigate the type of brain injury she had. Your DD has an acquired brain injury and because she is physically "better" does not necessarily mean that she has no lasting consequences. I suspect that because she is adopted a lot of her issues are being ascribed to her early care, whereas her brain injury is not being explored at all. Has she had support from ABI services?
Link
www.braininjuryhub.co.uk/mobile/information-library/behaviour

I think maybe this is a special case and while I’d normally be a big fan of actions have consequences I don’t think this is working in this situation.

With children who aren’t coping it’s best not to do anything in the immediate aftermath of any incident, except give them a bit of time and space, preferably in a safe environment like the beanbag suggested.

I wonder if social services would be in a position to give your youngest daughter some respite care at her previous carer so that you can have some one to one time with DD1?

It sounds like she is testing you and she needs love bombing.

It’s certainly worth getting the GP to refer for screening for ADHD and some of what you say makes me wonder about co-morbid autism as well.

It can be difficult to tell because attachment disorders can present in a similar way.

www.purplehouseclinic.co.uk/parenting-techniques/power-love-bombing-reboot-childs-emotional-well/

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/sep/22/oliver-james-love-bombing-children

Thank you, Notevilstepmother, that's very helpful. I think it makes a lot of sense.l as well, DD1 constantly says, 'You don't care for me at all' and 'Why did you choose me?' She's struggling to make sense of things and it's also all connected to her jealousy of DD2, I think. She only ever has meltdowns when DD2 is around and constantly compares what she gets to what her sister gets. It's very sad.

Lizzie
Not to bang on, but I work in child psychology and the impact of what sounds like a severe acquired brain injury should not be overlooked or everything automatically ascribed to her early care. Behavioural issues such as impulsivity, irritability and sleep problems are absolutely core ABI symptoms. Has this ever been explored or explained?

Yes, oldbirdy, thank you. When we were in the process of adopting her, we were warned that she might have cerebral palsy and may never walk. Clearly that wasn't right, she's a good gymnast now, as is her sister. But her sight and hearing have been damaged. She had a detached retina and bleeding behind the right eye. At one time there was a squint but this was corrected through patching. It's weaker than the left eye, though, hence she needs glasses and has had numerous hospital appointments.

You're right, the brain injury should be explored further. Sometimes she just doesn't seem to be aware of what's going on around her. That could be explained by hearing loss, but she actually appears to zone out.

Brain injury can cause epilepsy - zoning out could be absence seizures. Our DS has these (not caused by brain injury), I know what they look like but they are easy to miss.

Yes that is possible now I think about it, thank you. DD1 really does zone out and it's not clear whether she knows what's going on at all.

Not sure I have any useful advice, but wanted to post as Im an oldish adult who had attachment issues as a child, also have a now adult son that displayed similar behaviour at 8. (probably for similar reasons to your child)

Im wondering if it would be possible for you and your 8 year old to have a hobby one night a week for just the two of you. Something that will help your daughter to channel her anger/learn to calm her self, while being a special time with you that is just for her.

The two things that spring to mind are

taekwondo, as it is a defensive martial art which pays a lot of attention to developing a calm state of mind.

Yoga which does similar according to what I have read.

Although find something that teaches your daughter to be mindful would probably be the most helpful direction to go in, anything that she enjoys that can be special to just the two of you would likely really help her to attach to you while calming her insecurities.

That's a great suggestion, winner137, thank you. We need to spend time together one to one. And we are looking into martial arts for her.

Have you heard of the National Association of Therapeutic Parents?

They are a relatively new support organisation for adoptive/foster families etc

They can offer advice and support, they have a Facebook group and run training courses too

It was established by Sarah Naish who adopted a sibling group of five

www.naotp.org.uk/

I should have explained that when my son started taekwondo I knew the teacher, (who was/is one of the best in the world) he suggested my son try it due to seeing my sons behaviour at about 7 years old.

It would be very unusual for a child with ADHD to have the abiliity to behave well at school on a consistent basis.

Its worth noting that psychiatrists can have difficulty differentiating between children with ADHD and those with an emotionally/physically abusive chaotic background as the behaviour is so similar.

The drugs they use to treat ADHD are pretty potent, they can have nasty side effects that can cause long term problems.

For example Ritalin caused bad arthritis type symptoms in my knees, which luckily disappeared after stopping the medication for a few days, dexamphetamine and ritalin caused me the most awful cramping in my feet. This in turn triggered achillies problems (possibly other issues too) three years on I still can not walk very far without pain.

Although the meds for ADHD were wonder drugs for myself and my son, they are very potent and can create more problems than they are worth.

Not trying to make your post about me op, but feel that the side effects and ongoing issues from these drugs are not always discussed until they have caused a ongoing problem, at which point it is too late, the damage is done.

Thank you for all the helpful advice, it's meant a lot. It's depressing actually, I had a look at my foot today. It's got a big bruise from where DD1 stamped on it several times a couple of days ago. I showed it to DH and he asked, 'Why didn't you move it out of the way?'

What was the situation when she was stamping on your foot? I got punched in the stomach last night when DS lashed out - he struggles massively with transition times and yesterday was a perfect storm of coming in from one activity and going virtually straight out again to another (and being bloody knackered which his body/brain always fails to acknowledge). Dreading the start back at school too

It is probably the structure, routine, and rhythm to school that keeps her feeling secure, and allows her to keep a lid on her behaviour.
I am guessing her behaviour has deteriorated since before Christmas due to the holidays. My DC are always worse towards the end of the holidays, even with a structure in place at home.
Your DD1 sounds similar to mine, and the violence was purely a reaction to fear. It took us a long time to untangle that. 8yo was the peak of it. After that realisation, we changed bedtime procedure, changed other things for her, and (crucially) she matured lots in Y4.
That changed everything, and she is much calmer and happier as a result.

Thank you for the posts. Yes, she really loves routine and always wants to know exactly what's going to happen and when. Our cat had also had kittens which we were giving away, we'd just given one to her cousins at a motorway services. She also knew that the cat was going to be spayed so there wouldn't be any more. I should have anticipated it really.

Ain't hindsight the perfect tool?!! ((Hugs))