TO not want to spend my wedding anniversary with my IL's?

[ComeOVeneer]

The plan was that the children stay at Il's on Saturday night so dh and I can go out for dinner and have a lie in the next morning then head over there for lunch on the Sunday and pick kids up. The Sunday being our actual wedding anniversary. Now SIL who still lives at home has decided to invite a friend to stay for the week-end (after our plans were made) this means there is now nowhere for the kids to sleep. MIL has decided to back SIL plans over her son and family, even though it means she won't get to have her grand children. We will get a baby sitter so will still go out on Saturday, just no lie in on Sunday. Anyway we were over their for lunch yesterday at it appears MIL still expects us to drive up for lunch on Sunday. If she isn't having the children I don't really want to go there on my anniversary to have lunch. I wanted to go somewhere with dh and the kids for a nice lunch, just the 4 of us. DH is torn as he doesn't want to upset his mum and says "well we did already say we would come". AIBU to not want to go? SHe pulled out of her plans, so why can't we?

[appledumpling]

But you are still contributing to the property and if she defaults and the lender repossesses or she gets married then has a messy divorce you lose everything you have put in.

As Grrr so rightly says, if you already have a mortgage you are borrowing and paying interest but are then being expected to give that money away which makes no sense.

My brother is loaded (really loaded) and we don't expect him to pay for anything. It's just the way of the world, some people have more than others. And some people have worked flipping hard for what they have.

[Grrrr]

I gathered from your post that this was the MIL's plan but if could you not get her to understand that if you use a lump sum as a deposit then the SIL's monthly mortgage repayments will be smaller so it amounts to the same thing really (but gets you a stake in the property so it isn't money down the drain). You could perhaps say that it would make her seem more independent, not having to ask for a contribution each month and not being at the mercy of whether your husband loses his job and can't keep making the monthly contributions. She can effectively forget about the loan until such time as she ever comes to sell the property.

You could play on the fact that it adds pressure to your lives to be responsible for two mortgage contributions and waht would happen to her daughter if you dh did lose his job, she might lose her home. "Oh no, much more security for all if we do it our way".

Is the SIL likely to marry/ have kids of her own in the future, when will the monthly mortgage contributions ever stop ?

[ComeOVeneer]

SIl unlikely to marry and have children, she hasn't had a relationship of more than a year yet (her current relationship is with a woman).

Putting aside the practicalities/legalities etc and what would be the best way to assist financially, why the hell should we? We are not under any obligation to support her. SHe isn't our child. MIL has but us in an awful position as we (and by that I mean me because I will be the one blamed) will be seen to be being selfish/stingy etc etc , although the only way we could help out would be to use the money we put away each month as savings. As far as I am concerned if she can't fund the mortage herself either don't buy or as others have said get someone to live with her to help pay it.

[chocolattegirl]

I wouldn't lend her money at all personally but that's my take on it. IMO she shouldn't be buying if she can't afford it on her own bat - after all, that is what a mortgage is for! To assist people by putting a lump sum up front for them to buy a property with. To be helped with the repayments suggests to me that the whole venture is risky - esp as she hasn't got a full-time job.

Families do help each other so if your DH wants to help her then he needs to get his share noted now as either a charge over the property or a % share as Grrrr and Appledumpling both said. I presume that had the situations been reversed then SIL would helped you and DH in a similar way?

[ComeOVeneer]

The trouble is is that MIL favours SIL, anything she wants she gets. SHe wants a flat so she will get a flat. Trouble is this time they it is something they can't afford to pay for by themselves, so she expects DH to be the dutiful, loyal to the family, son and pitch in.

[Eleusis]

COV, you are are definatley in the right on this one -- both issues. 1- MIL changed her plans and so you are no longer obligated to show up on YOUR anniversary. and 2- DO NOT give SIL money every month. Where will that one end? You will grow to resent your DH every time you want to give your own kids something. How many months of mortgage payment unitl you realise you could have givine your kids a privvate education.

No no no. Stand your ground and tell your DH he better stand up for you. I would be very mad at him if he didn't.

On a separate note, I could probably manage a babysitting swap if you want. You know your kids come to my house on your anniversary weekend. And you get mine one weekend. My DD and your DD would have a grand time.

[WelshBoris]

God, I really feel for you on this one COV.

SIL sounds like a nightmare and MIL is letting her get away with it.

They need to wise up, no wonder she is fliting from job to job when she knows they will clear up her mess.

Bugger the lot of them. Put your foot down, go for a lovely meal on Sunday with your family and enjoy your anniversary.

[ComeOVeneer]

Thanks Ele. I have already sorted a baby sitter (the girl I was telling you about) but am up for a swap another time definately.

[agnesnitt]

Your mother in law needs to take a long walk off a short pier, taking her daughter with her.

What is it with these women?!

Your sister in law should either buy on her own or make do with renting like the vast majority of other people in the country.

Your husband should work only to support himself and his family, and since he married you and had kids, that means you and those kids. If his mother can;t understand this then she has issues.

I can't believe how often I type stuff like this. Maybe I should write a course and get families to send me their mental in laws to be re-educated in the real way of the3 world?

agnes

[Eleusis]

"Long walk on a short pier"

[Katy44]

Families do help each other, and I'm sure if she had got herself into a situation where she couldn't cope then you would help as a one off. To deliberately take on more than she can afford on the understanding you'll help indefinitely (permanently?) is incredibly presumptuous!! She's taking the p$ss!

[ComeOVeneer]

In SIL defence I don't think she knows of MIL plan. She thinks they (ie her paretns are helping her) MIL wants to help her so shecan get a nice 2 bed flat but can't afford it hence the reason she expects dh to pitch in. We bought our first flat a tiny one bed that needed total renovation, all by ourselves and not a penny from the. SIL wants to by a brand new luxury2 bed apartment and MILis more than happy to pass on her (and our) money in order for her to do so.

[Earthymama]

Don't get talked into giving her money. She needs to take responsibiliy for her own life. I can't believe you are even considering this, unless you are multi millionaires
None of us can see into the future; you and your DH should plan to make things secure for you two and DCs. There's university etc to think about, for a start. I could understand if it was a DD or DS but even then I think you would need to have LOADS of disposable income.
And don't go to lunch!!

[kimi]

Go for a nice family lunch with your DH and children and tell your inlaws to get stuffed.

[kimi]

As for paying your SIL morgage , tell her to get stuffed too.
If your DH has a good wage put the money aside for your children not his sister.

[slimmerjim]

COV DON'T give her any money, especially as mil is angling for it to be monthly.

Dh married youngish with a joint inheritance of...

....a student loan each ! We were beyond skint and not from wealthy families - though grateful for any little assistance that came our way, eg the odd bit of furniture from a neighbour moving, a little cash from my parents. We didn't have a car for ages, rented a dingy 1 bed flat AND WORKED OUR ARSES OFF to be able to afford more. Our first bought flat wasn't great, but we soldiered on and are now relatively property rich though cash poor at times like everyone else.

We would never have expected that level of financial commitmment from even very close family members.

If you can't afford, then you can't have. Though if you and dh decided you could find a lump sum towards a deposit, you could get a local solicitor probably quite cheaply to draw up documentation in support of this, giving you a return on your investment should any profit be made in the future.

But personally I'd walk away. I know nothing about your area to say whether or not the apartment is a future goldmine or not. Probably a very long term investment if already kitted out to the hilt, as opposed to say a dingy flat in a good area which she could renovate for a more reliable return.

[LoveMyGirls]

NO way should she have your money it would be different if she worked hard and wasn't getting anywhere but she sounds lazy why should you give away what is by rights your children's future money!

[ComeOVeneer]

DH is workinglte tonight and will be back after I am asleep. I don't fancy discussing this over the phone so will have to leave it until tomorrow. I get the feeling he doesn't particularly want to hand money over but feels bad that he won't help his sister out, bit of a rock and a hard place for him really. At the end of the day we have tochildrens' futures to save for (potentially college/university and setting them up for a good start in life, not a 30+ year old woman The issue of our anniversary IMO is non negotiable. We were only having lnch there as we needed to pick the children up, now we aren't I see noreason to go.

[hotbot]

helping out someone is a gift not an expectation, and quite frankly i would have thought that a generous step up may have been something like a bed/ bedding,, or a reasonably priced household item,,
you need yuor cash for your family and commitments regardless of yuor earning power, not for some ungrateful wench. Spend sunday on your own too, unbelievable!!!!

[ComeOVeneer]

You are right hotbot, the more I think about the more angry I am at MIL on Dh's behalf. She has put him in a horribly unfair situation.

[Loshad]

jeepers cov, you are so not being unreasonable. your mil makes mine look positively saintly (and that's the first time i've ever thought that).
Definately don't go for lunch - obviously you were only staying for lunch as collecting the children, and five hours driving in 1 day just for a lunch, madness as well as tough on your dk's.
as for sil - words fail me, the answer is no, has to be because you will really resent this big time, and those who have pointed out potential market crash/mortgage raise or so right.

[tearinghairout]

I love the way this mortgage helping is MIL's suggestion. Bloody cheek. I remember when my MIL came round and saw we had lots of tapes (it was a while ago) and suggested we give some of them to SIL because she didn't have many!! (She earns twice what we do) Tell MIL you will NOT be subsidising her DDs mortgage.

The restaurant thing is more tricky, because DH obviously doesn't feel that spending his anniversary with his mother is a problem. (Am feeling touchy on this subject 'cos its my 14th WA today and he didn't get me anything - no flowers/chocs/card. His excuse was that he had someone in the car with him, so couldn't stop at the petrol station to buy flowers. Presumably the someone had him at gunpoint, tied up or something.) Anyway, I digress... it seems to me that you have to convince DH that a trip to his mums' on that day is not in his best interests!

[RedFraggle]

ComeOVeneer, if your DH feels guilty about not helping out his sister could you arrrange to see a lawyer for a chat about the situation? My MIL asked dh and I to act as guarantors on her mortgage to buy her council house. We had literally just bought our first house at the time and were really stretched. I spoke to a lawyer in a casual chat way and he said "don't touch the situation with a barge pole" basically. It was really helpful to have firm reasons for saying no. (Like the fact that if she defaulted we would have to pay 2 mortgages and therefore probably lose our own home etc). Don't know if this would help your situation but a specialist would at least be able to help you see all the angles...
I think that at your SIL's age she should have her life sorted already and if she hasn't that is not your dh's problem. Presumably they both got the same start in life?! My own sister is a lot better off than me but she is driven whilst I am one of lifes "coasters" . I've never resented her for being richer and would never expect her to help me out...

[catsmother]

I would never "gift" (even with the various suggestions already made of ring-fencing that sum somehow) large sums of money to a close relative unless I could truly afford to say goodbye to that money - either permanently, or for an indefinite period of time.

That'd mean that I'd have to have such huge savings that the disppearance of said amount would have no impact upon me & my immediate family, even if all sorts of unforseen circumstances befell us. Not many people are in such a secure position. You can never tell what's round the corner, and MIL needs to be told very firmly that you will not be able to "help".

Unless she has access to all your accounts & payslips, she cannot possibly know what your household income is, what your liabilities are, or indeed what plans you have for the future, and I think it's appalling that she should pressurise DP to do such a thing, based, presumably, on assumptions about your "wealth" gleaned (probably) from what she thinks he earns, what car he drives or what sort of house you live in. After all, if DP was able, and more importantly, wanted to help his sister, he wouldn't wait until he was asked would he !

Even assuming that he could literally "throw" a sum away, irrespective of what the future might bring (illness, accident, redundancy etc) I would not consider "helping" someone unless they themselves had already done everything possible to help themselves. This SIL must be in her late 20s, early 30s (??) and has only just got her first job ..... and it's part time !!! Okay ..... I know that even with "good" jobs, it's damn difficult to buy these days, but she has basically dossed about for 10 years by the sounds of it and isn't making any effort to improve her buying position by maximising her income opportunities. If that's her attitude, what would happen once (if) DH gets involved and she's then made redundant, or sacked, ..... would MIL then pressure DP to pick up the slack again ?

COV, I think you need to be very firm with DH over this if he's at all wavering. If he goes ahead, the resentment you'd feel - even if, at the moment, you could nominally "afford" to "help" - at paying out for a lazy scrounger (well, she is isn't she ?) could seriously affect your own relationship. I also suspect you'd feel furious at MIL, and at DH's rolling over at her command .... and that wouldn't be healthy for anyone.

[ComeOVeneer]

Thanks for all your comments. Re he lawyer thing, DH isa lawyer as is FIL so that angle is well and truly covered. Haven't managed to speak as he was home past midnight and had to be in at 9am for a meting. Hopefully will be home early enough tonight to chat. I am pretty sure he really doesn't want to fund his SIL but doesn't want to say "no" to his mum and deal with the potential fall out. The trouble is his mum is unable to let go and accept her children are grown up and no longer need/want her be involvedin all aspects of their lives (or that is the casewith DH, where as SIL is quite happy not to have to be responsible). FOrinstance when we were looking at moving out of London, we told MIL the prime reason was for more space (also wanted a nicer area, closer to my family, and further away from MIl - thatone we obviously didn't tell her ). Her answer was we could buy their house at a price we could afford, they would geta smaller flat nearby and SIL would continue to live in the house with us . She has always maintained ifshe wins the lottery she will buy a big house with a couple of annexes and we will all live ogher. Suffocating or what?!?!?!?!?