To let DD phone her dad on Christmas Day?

[passemoilevin]

He was emotionally abusive (to me), takes a lot of drugs, I have a non mol against him. Not had any contact from him for a couple of months, which has been really lovely.

Just dropped DD (2) to the contact centre and he had left 3 bags of gifts for her for me to take home addressed from Father Christmas.

Feeling a bit awkward about it all. Should I let her phone him Christmas Day? I'm thinking no, it will just blur the boundaries and weaken my case if he breaks his non mol again. And I REALLY don't want him to think I'm opening up the idea of contact between us two. I'm just getting my anxiety sorted that he left me with.

But then I feel sad. For her, and a little bit for him (although I absolutely detest the man). He's very troubled, with a great deal of MH issues (doesn't excuse what he's done of course).

We've made Christmas cards. Should I write one to him from her and leave it with the staff when I go to collect her in an hour?

Send some pics from Christmas Day to her godfather (a mutual friend) to send on to him?

Or just do nothing?

Gahhh I'm glad he's made the effort but I'm unsure how to play this really.

I would write the Christmas card and leave it at that.

We've made Christmas cards. Should I write one to him from her and leave it with the staff when I go to collect her in an hour?

I’d do that, as it acknowledges his gesture but doesn’t compromise the non mol. Also, if she’s only 2 will she understand a phone call to him?

What a horrid dilemma for you OP, I hope you and your DD have a lovely, peaceful Christmas.

Do nothing, see it all as part and parcel of the emotional abuse. Let your daughter write him a thank you note and give it to him at next contact, he's trying to draw you in again.

I don't suppose a 2 year old will be able to have much of a conversation on the phone anyway to be honest (especially if distracted by new toys etc) and it may then end up with you having to have a conversation.

If anything, I'd go with the card and leave it like that.

He is having contact with her. Is there anyone else who can phone him with her, so you don’t have to talk to him?

Don’t do it. It will be much sadder for her when he reverts to type and plays up. Sorry x

I would perhaps write a Christmas card from her and leave it with the staff. That way you're not opening a direct line of contact. I wouldn't send photos to the godfather to send to him, But maybe next time she goes to the contact centre she can take a couple of photos with her? Or again leave a couple of photos with the staff

No card, she’s 2 she can’t write cards so it’s effectively from you. Also she won’t miss talking to him on xmas day, so again you are doing it from you for him.

He has sent his dd presents, they are from him to her. Not you.

It will become more complicated as she get older, keep the boundaries firm just now.

I’d agree Christmas card and leave it at that.
I think to contact him would blur the boundaries and it’d be hard for you to take the non mol back to court if he breaks out

Could you let her record a voice message or little video for her dad and pass that on through the mutual contact? Would be easy enough to just get her to wish him a merry Christmas and a quick glance at the presents he’s sent her from FC/the rest of her haul. His past actions aren’t acceptable and while you don’t want to open direct contact I’m sure a quick 30 second or so from her would make his day. It’s lovely after everything you have done you can still be open to the option of extending kindness to him. Just an idea that’s all 😊

She's closer to 3, but yeah, she can't really hold a lengthy coherent conversation. So would make the whole thing more awkward as I definitely don't want to speak to him. We're spending the day with my dad, who certainly wouldn't like to be on the phone to him.

I'll go with the Christmas card and leave it at that. Difficult to get her to do a thank you card as he's done them all from FC. But agree about the drawing back in bit. I went through months of falling for that shit and trying to enable us a cohesive coparenting relationship whilst he was just planning how he could hurt me further.

Personally I think it's too soon. I wouldn't do anything.

Been there to some extent.

Do nothing.

If he asks her to ring, then maybe I'd allow as a one off. But not if he doesn't ask.

Don't send him anything in her name. He'll know it was you and will interpret it as an open door. Unless it's something she asks for and it was clearly from her (made by her for example).
As she gets older, if she wants to give him or send him something, then it's fine.

Ok maybe I won't. I agree that although she made the cards (with a lot of assistance from me), obviously it's come from me. And that could lead him to think he could change the status quo. And things are so lovely and peaceful. I really really don't want that.

And thank you Not. Merry Christmas to you too

Good parents don't rely on giving tons of presents to make their children happy and well adjusted. They focus on being good parents to them. I agree it's all part of the emotional abuse. I had to watch for years a similar situation where a parent wasn't capable of being there for her children and used to smother them in gifts and even valentines cards wishing they could be together. It didn't change the fact that she was a thoroughly shit parent who had failed at the basics, and it all reinforced the poor approach that she took. So keep your boundaries in place - there's good reason why you put them there originally

passemoilevin I’ve been there, contact centre, Christmas, manipulative bastard. It’s hard, really bloody hard. Especially when you’re still healing from years of abuse.
Go easy on yourself, make your choices based on what is best for you and your DD. All the best x

I agree with others, a card is fine but I wouldn’t phone.

I agree, hold those boundaries. They were put in place for good reasons. No card, no phone call. If she wants those when she is older she will ask for them.

Your post comes across like you feel obligated to do something "nice" for him because he got presents for your child. I think the key here is to not act on that feeling of obligation - just because he makes some kind of gesture doesn't mean you need to or have to and it doesn't make you a bad person for not doing it.

My ex works very much on "I do something for you/buy something for small child, you owe me" (e.g. Buys her some shoes, thinks that means I'll agree to some wildly ridiculous change of contact arrangements) so I'm very wary of gestures like yours ex giving gifts. I don't reciprocate and (finally!) I don't feel obligated to do so.

Like a PP said, good parents don't rely on gestures to make their children feel happy and secure, the focus of pen being good parents.

At the moment your DD is reliant on you to be the gatekeeper and decide what it's going to help her be happy and well adjusted. Sending a card on her behalf is not going to achieve this, especially given the issues you have had with her father. When your DD is older (not much older, only a year or two), she will be able to write her own cards and indeed choose if she wants to send them or not.

It's a crap situation I know - keep being strong and focus on your DD not your ex.

Had a moment of weakness. But just sitting here thinking of everything he's done, even recently whilst NC. He told social services that I was a drug addict and my child isn't safe with me (obviously categorically untrue which he knows 100000%), meaning she had to have an assessment done, causing me so much stress and embarrassment. He refuses to pay maintenance now he's seeing her in a contact centre (cash in hand job) - buying Christmas presents is the fun part, but her food/ clothing/ nursery bills etc still need to be paid for! He turns up usually an hour late every week to a two hour contact then tells people I'm stopping him from seeing his daughter because he's got a new girlfriend (who's 21 and has had her children taken away and sounds very vulnerable, so if anything I just feel very sad for her and any other children brought into this situation - I'm certainly not bloody jealous).

Not meaning to drip feed at all, had to get a reality check and actually sit and think about what he's doing to me and how much he doesn't deserve any amount of kindness from me. Fuck him.

Merry Christmas everyone. Im not going to let him spoil mine.

Where does the OP say he is a shit parent? Nowhere!
I think you need tyo remind yourself that his relationship with your DD is completely separate to his relationship with you.

As lurking said, good parents aren’t all about presents. They see their kids regularly, pay maintenance and don’t generally have to meet their kids in contact centres. They’re also not usually violent, abusive or addicted to illegal substances.

Your dd is too young right now to decide whether or not she wants to give cards or make phone calls. So he can bugger off.

It's not separate if it draws you into contact between you and your abusive ex. Come on, these are complex, complicated, intrinsically linked relationships no matter how hard you try and separate them.

DD is too young to know or care about cards or phone calls and OP is right to give him NO communication at all. It would be going back into having a relationship with him, whether it was by christmas card or phone call... OP is extremely sensible to keep things exactly as they are.

And he is, clearly a shit parent FFS!!! He doesn't contribute financially, he's abusive, therefore he can't possibly be a good parent can he - we can all see that without needing even OPs opinion. The ONLY positive thing he's doing is he does actually see her in the contact centre. But one asks why. He's late to it every time, those contacts are all about him, not his daughter (if they were about her, he'd always be on time). But it's more self absorbed manipulative behaviour designed to benefit him only (in whatever way he feels it does - opportunity to bad mouth OP to the contact centre staff being one possibility).

With someone like this the only choice is grey rock, ignore, ignore, ignore.

Stick with your plan OP, you have it right. He's not worth a bloody Christmas card anyway!! Or the ink from your pen!

Where does the OP say he is a shit parent? Nowhere!
I think you need tyo remind yourself that his relationship with your DD is completely separate to his relationship with you.

Well being abusive to me in front of her and refusing to stop taking drugs every day so he could see her unsupervised and not in a contact centre isn't ideal. But I agree, and I always put her first. SS told me I could choose between contact centre visitation or him not seeing her at all for a year at least whilst he undergoes drug & MH treatment. I opted for the contact centre as I believe that is what's best for her, though if I was being selfish I'd much rather him out of our lives forever.

Like a PP said, she will have no idea if I sent him a card or not. She won't ask to phone him on Christmas Day, she won't even think of him. She loves him, but doesn't see him much. So he's not a big part of her little life, as sad as that is.

I do see the relationship as separate. I'll go pick her up in a minute and talk about the lovely time she had. I'll wait around for an hour next week and every week until he eventually turns up. If he ever gets off the drugs, I'm happy for him to have more contact. I'd love for them to have a lovely relationship, I love my dad and I feel very guilty that my DD doesn't have much of a relationship with hers. I feel it's unfair to make that comment.