To ask why Universal Credit is so terrible? (Not goady)

[evilharpy]

I've seen several threads (one today about food banks which I can't seem to find now) where people have had some strong things to say about Universal Credit and the feeling seems to be that it is contributing to the poverty problem and forcing people to rely on food banks and causing more problems than it's helping with.

I'm wondering what exactly makes it so terrible and why it's so much worse than what came before it. Google hasn't been much help as most of the results are just official links on how to apply for it etc. But it seems to be that it's paid monthly rather than weekly or fortnightly and there's a long wait to get it?

I would just like to understand a bit more about it. And I don't mean this to be in any way insensitive or goady.

Nightshirt for PM! (That’s not actually a joke, I wish somebody who thought more like you would get into a position to change things!)

"And Severe Disablement Allowance has been replaced, not abolished with Employment and Support Allowance"

No Kath. ESA replaced Incapacity Benefit. Severe Disablement Allowance was part of DLA which is being replaced with PIP If you are going to benefit bash at least get your facts right.

I'll bet my everyone on this thread £1 though. That they'll be voted back in in 2022.

Well yes, if Labour don't come up with a credible opposition, I'm sure they will.

@Snugglepumpkin, I just read your comment. I so sorry you are going to be penalised under UC reducing your life chances.

No Kath. ESA replaced Incapacity Benefit. Severe Disablement Allowance was part of DLA which is being replaced with PIP If you are going to benefit bash at least get your facts right.

Agree @HelenaDove, also realise I got something wrong that severe disablement allowance was an alternative DLA benefit and not being replaced by ESA but PIP. As u said severe disability premium is a separate benefit to severe disability allowance, a separate premium on top of ESA which is being abolished under ESA.

Perfect post, AnachronisticCorpse 'deserving and undeserving poor' and the public eagerly swallow this rhetoric. Divide and rule indeed.

It was also peddled by the Daily Mail that ppl on Incapacity Benefit got free prescriptions.

UNTRUE On IB you had to pay for prescriptions.

"Universal Credit cost soars to £16billion: Watchdog sounds alarm bells over project set to take 9 years"

"Whitehall’s Major Projects Authority has rung alarm bells over the scheme, declaring 'successful delivery of the project is in doubt'"

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/universal-credit-cost-soars-16billion-5950976

@HelenaDove, I just wanted to double check about severe disablement allowance and a quick google says severe disablement allowance was in fact an alternative to incapacity benefit. I think for those not entitled to incapacity benefit due to not having paid enough NI contributions. It has now been replaced by ESA.

However, the point still stands that @KathArtic, if she was responding to my comment that said my severe disability premium will be abolished under UC, wrongly confused severe disablement allowance with severe disability premium. As said severe disability premium is a separate benefit to severe disability allowance. It's a disability premium on top of ESA for those who live alone and receive PIP care or the few who are waiting to be transferred to PIP from DLA and getting middle or high rate care component of DLA. This severe disability premium is being abolished under UC. I get it currently and will lose £49.00 a week when I am transferred to UC.

@AnachronisticCorpse, yes, fully agree with your appraisal of the situation.

Thanks @notreallyarsed. I hope all of us who understand that the Tories are massively reducing welfare cover and are alarmed by this are enough to vote them out in the next election. No government is perfect but although some changes may have been needed the changes since 2010 by coalition under Cameron and Osborne and continued under May have been callous in my view.

Things needed to change. And I say that after being one of the people who benefited from the old system. I worked part time and had tax credits to top up my pay. I was offered the chance to go back full time, but my income would be exactly the same as I would have lost the tax credits due to my increased salary. I chose to stay part time as if I had gone full time I would have had the additional child care hassles and less time with my children but no financial benefit. You could argue it was morally wrong to choose to continue with the tax credits, but it was the system at fault. UC eliminates the above as it obviously provides an incentive to work.

Ps to add when I refer to changes I mean welfare changes.

@Livelovebehappy, even if some changes were needed, the Tories have swung the other way and will cause a lot of financial suffering. Also are you happy with the big cuts to disability benefits?

I was on benefits while working for a year before meeting DH. I had two preschoolers in nursery and my childcare was covered by tax credits. It cost the govt more for me to work than if I was at home on income support. But I had aspirations and a work ethic so wanted to be working.

Under UC I think I would have been much worse off, and probably wouldn’t have felt able to work after a while, my life for that time would have been a horrible struggle of work focussed interviews, being urged to work more hours, having to log the monthly childcare, delays in payments meaning my rent wouldn’t be paid and so on and so on. I can honestly say I would have had a breakdown.

I’m not saying the old system was perfect but the way UC is set up is not going to incentivise people to work more, it’s going to crush them.

It is utterly ridiculous that as a wealthy country we quibble over supporting those who either can’t or (rarely) won’t support themselves. It’s such a tiny tiny drop in the ocean compared to all the other crap we spend on or ignore (tax avoidance for a start).

I have 3DC. I have always worked, except for maternity leave, and SMP is not easy to live on.
I became unemployed, through no fault of my own, for a 3 month period. It was hell on earth. I was applying for everything, and found the whole ' signing on' thing completely demeaning. But I had to do it.
I was lucky. Excellent, inexpensive childcare. This meant that I could apply for jobs on insane hours. I absolutely couldn't afford to be unemployed.

Look at this mess that they are making. Parents are expected to find jobs that fit around the 'free childcare' element. 30 hours per week - except it isn't, because you have to factor in the time needed for drop offs and pick ups.

Where are the jobs that fit into this? What do they pay?
This is a total mess. The anxiety of needing to constantly reapply, and the ridiculous deadlines! I don't know how people keep going, faced with that shit.

These are people who are likely to be renting, given the impossibility of the housing ladder these days. Rent is significantly higher that a mortgage, but without the ability to save for a deposit, you are screwed.

Slow handclap for Tresemme.

@Nightshirt I desperately hope so too. I’ve never voted Tory in my life and never would (grew up in Scotland during the 80s, jelly and ice cream and all that). I’m actually stunned by the hateful politicians who are in such positions of power at the moment, all by creating fear, hatred and division. It’s so sad.

Nightshirt I am going to lose SDP on my ESA too when I get switched over to UC. I am dreading it. I get enhanced rate PIP and it's hard enough budgeting as it is. What I was recommended by a CAB advisor was that, at the moment my mum doesn't claim Carer's Allowance for me because I would lose the SDP. But when I am switched over to UC and I lose the premium, there is not reason not to allow her to claim it. I'll still lose the money but at least my mum would get extra help (and get passported to no jobseeking requirements on UC as well).

So if you have anyone who is providing care for you but can't claim Carer's Allowance right now due to you losing your SDP, you could encourage them to claim. For me it would be a small sense of victory against the Tory cutbacks as my mum would get entitlement to more benefits as a carer than I would lose in SDP. Just worth thinking about.

Livelove Dont forget to put your ladder away now that you have pulled it up!

“Today 15:23 AnachronisticCorpse

It’s very easy to sit in your ivory tower and say that people shouldn’t have children if they can’t afford to.

But that ignores the very real factors of poverty, lack of understanding, lack of choice, forced pregnancies, poor role models, low self esteem etc etc. Obviously not in all cases but there are reasons why you see larger families in lower socioeconomic groups.“

I really, really agree with you. The problem is this cultural issue you describe is very real but is as a result of 20 years over reliance on the state. The point of welfare return is to change that culture in the next 20 years, not now, not next year or maybe not in 5 years.

It’s going to take a long term to change the circumstances that dictate the culture and making people responsible for their own income and not subsiding those who choose to work less than they need is the start.

I’ll be honest Nightshirt, and admit I’m not too clued up on the disability benefit changes. But regardless, I would say disability allowance should be easily and readily available - finding work when you are able bodied is difficult enough, so would be virtually impossible if you have a disability. But, I would also say there are huge differences in the classification of disability, and there are definitely some people with disabilities who are able to work. It’s difficult to criticise the disability allowance system without being classed as ‘disablist’, but it has to be said that being disabled today doesn’t necessarily mean a lifetime disability. For example someone with cerebral palsy or severe life changing physical or mental conditions should always have easy access to dLA. But then at the other end you have people with MH issues or short term affected disability who should be dealt with differently as you would assume they will eventually be in a position to be able to return to work.

“Today 15:26 Notreallyarsed

How many benefits claimants do some posters actually think chose to be on benefits? Genuine question. I know of a couple, they fit the DM/channel 5 stereotype. The rest I know hate it. It’s demeaning, they are made to feel like they have to justify their existence, and hate being worried about money all the time. It’s not the cushty life people believe, it’s not easy. And the vast majority of people on benefits are NOT workshy scroungers.“

Ok I’ll give you an example i hope isnt outing.

When CB

Woop posted too soon!

*Today 15:26 Notreallyarsed

How many benefits claimants do some posters actually think chose to be on benefits? Genuine question. I know of a couple, they fit the DM/channel 5 stereotype. The rest I know hate it. It’s demeaning, they are made to feel like they have to justify their existence, and hate being worried about money all the time. It’s not the cushty life people believe, it’s not easy. And the vast majority of people on benefits are NOT workshy scroungers.*

When the government bought in the new child benefits rules-
I have a friend who was raging. 3 children in 5 years, husband earns about 45k (at this point he would’ve been affected, the government later clarified it a bit)

Child benefit was the funding diffference between her being able to be a SAHM and not. She had based all her child bearing choices on her reliance of this benefit, and then it was taken away.

People are reliant on tax credits in a similar way. I don’t blame them, I had much sympathy for my friend, who made that decision based on the information she had at the time.

But that doesn’t mean it’s right for us as a society, and right for us as a taxpayer, to fund this sort of behaviour.

When you’re talking about someone with an income of £45k it’s hardly on the breadline is it???

You may not think it’s right, but it’s morally reprehensible to just whip the safety net out from under people with no alternative, no other funding and no chance of changing things.

It’s exactly the same thing. She was reliant on benefits.