To ask why Universal Credit is so terrible? (Not goady)

[evilharpy]

I've seen several threads (one today about food banks which I can't seem to find now) where people have had some strong things to say about Universal Credit and the feeling seems to be that it is contributing to the poverty problem and forcing people to rely on food banks and causing more problems than it's helping with.

I'm wondering what exactly makes it so terrible and why it's so much worse than what came before it. Google hasn't been much help as most of the results are just official links on how to apply for it etc. But it seems to be that it's paid monthly rather than weekly or fortnightly and there's a long wait to get it?

I would just like to understand a bit more about it. And I don't mean this to be in any way insensitive or goady.

cherry

They go into the care system. And that costs the tax payer far more

I find it really really hard to imagine a child starving because of their parents benefits being cut. Certainly one would expect to hear about it if it had happened. It’s fifgicult to imagine, even in those Tory era, that there isn’t assistance available to someone whose children are in danger of starving. But maybe that’s more dramatic than the situation you’re referring to?

Then please go and volunteer at your local food bank.

Or have a chat with a social worker, the ones that deal with the fall out when parents try to hand over their children because they can't adequate support them.

The Trussell Trust gave out 1.2 million food parcels last year, and that figure doesn't include those given out by other organisations. That's a reality, however dramatic it may sound.

I really think Cherry is having us on. She can’t be that socially unaware.

Cherry coke - I feel you missed the essence of what I was saying - families are suffering because the UK minimum wage is so much lower than a realistic in line with inflation living wage needs to be. If the living wage was paid thena large percentage people would not require "benefits " in the first place!
The people you're denigrating chosen to have children and care for them because their working income made it affordable - just because the government has decided to take away part of their earnings doesn't mean that they these parents are irresponsible or feckless!

Sistersofmercy- everything I’ve posted is agreeing with what you’ve posted above. So I think you and the more aggressive posters are being deliberately obtuse to be honest.

Apologies cherry coke if I misread you're post...
I'm simply horrified at how this situation is being minimised by many, when it really really is leaving many families, hard-working honest decent people facing financial destitution, the loss of home, family and health.

How to change the culture.

We could start by reinvesting in initiatives like SureStart, to target help and support to the families who need it. By giving children opportunities and aspirations. Investing in todays kids knowing we won’t see the benefits until the next generation. Continuing to support the families who need it to ensure their children are growing up in comfort so they are less likely to suffer from poor MH or addictions. Ploughing money into youth centres and making adult education and further education free at the point of use. Improving mh services so people can overcome barriers to working, funding wraparound care, paying a living wage.

That’s just off the top of my head. Not taking money away from people who rely on it. It doesn’t seem like rocket science really.

I find it really really hard to imagine a child starving because of their parents benefits being cut

If I, and other friends, hadn’t been around to help our mate and her two daughters in the 6 week wait they would have fucking starved! And been bloody freezing with no gas or electricity either. The jobcentre gave her £50 for 3 fucking weeks with 2 kids. Interim payment. Thankfully enough of us were able to help out and tide them over. But if you can’t imagine it happening then you need to open your fucking eyes because it’s happening up and down this shithole of a country, day in and day out.

Children are starving to death day in day out? No they’re not.

Anachronistic- there was amazing investment in sure start and children’s centres 10 years ago, no denying that. It’s hard to see how that made a generation who had less reliance on the state though.

Cherry, because they didn’t follow it through. And, certainly in this area, rather than targeting the people who needed it all their baby groups were full of middle class yummy mummies and childminders.

The set up didn’t work. It needs to be rebranded and relaunched.

And are you saying that you don’t mind children going hungry so long as they’re not actually dying of it?

Children are starving to death day in day out? No they’re not.

There are many instances of children going to school hungry and unable to concentrate. Tales of teachers bringing food to school for pupils. Many hospital admissions of adults with malnutrition and associated illnesses. In Britain, a first world country. In the 21st century.

Right ok, but they are going hungry, without food/heat/light/appropriate clothes. But as long as they’re not a fatality statistic eh Cherry. I’m going to bow out now, because trying to get people like you to understand basic empathy and humanity is somewhat akin to trying to explain it to a dictator. Frustrating, depressing and ultimately futile. Enjoy your life feeling better than everyone else. I hope it stays that way and you never end up needing help.

I make sandwiches and take in extra fruit to school for children who are not fed properly at home. Both parents working but in low paid jobs. Money doesn't stretch, especially when something happens like an unexpected bill.

Today 20:24 AnachronisticCorpse

And are you saying that you don’t mind children going hungry so long as they’re not actually dying of it?

Can’t you have a reasonable conversation without making things up? You’re being overly dramatic and sound quite simple when your need to rely on hyperbole to make a (as yet not fully understood) point

Reliance on the state. I actually hate that terminology. It’s one of those othering terms.

We all rely on the state. That’s the whole point of a democratic society. Most of us take out far more than we’ll ever put in. But that’s ok for the comfortable/wealthy because they are ‘self supporting’ and paying taxes. Never mind that the net cost for the vast majority is well over the amount they pay in taxes. It’s those pesky povvos that are stealing from the purse, you see, because we have named their benefits, er ‘benefits’.

Never mind the education, infrastructure, healthcare, services that we all use day in day out. They don’t count apparently. Because we ‘pay our taxes’. I don’t, incidentally, haven’t for years.

I’m not making things up, I assumed that was your point from your insistence that children aren’t dropping like flies.

No you’ve made it up. You’re having an imaginary fight.

I’m not having a fight. This is a pleasant discussion. I’m just not sure why you are deliberately ignoring the fact that yes, children are going hungry as a direct result of the cuts to tax credits and the change to UC.

And not just you, the majority of the voting public apparently. Why aren’t people more angry about this? Actually I know why, it’s becuase they’ve swallowed the rhetoric about benefit scroungers being workshy and robbing us decent people of our hard earned cash.

what concerns me is that there just aren't enough jobs for the number of people looking for them, for the number of hours that the govt are saying people have to work (37 hours?) especially unskilled jobs, there are only so many retail/basic admin jobs out there, and even those employers want people with experience

surely it would be cheaper to let people work during school hours (if they can find one) and then the govt don't have to help pay for childcare, than force people into more hours, and have to help pay for it?

incidentally, where is all this wonderfully cheap flexible wraparound childcare?

and as for people saying you shouldn't have had kids with a bad father - well how the hell are we meant to know? I was with my ex for 10 years, married for 4, we had a child and all of a sudden he had an affair with some slapper at the office and fucked off, how was i meant to know that would happen? I was a SAHM because we could easily afford that on his salary, and suddenly I'm on my own with his child and all the bills to pay!

I'm dreading the rollout, it's not in my area yet but I purposely set up a small business which I attend to during school hours (about 25 hours a week) so that I could be around for school drop offs and pick ups. universal credit means they will try and force me to give up my business or work more hours right? there's no breakfast/after school club at my daughters school, all the local childminders are full and I have no family support - who the fuck is meant to do the school runs? Jesus Christ!

I totally agree about the lack of jobs. And within the next ten-fifteen years there’ll be even fewer. Almost all the banks have gone, shops are a dying breed. There are apps to order and pay for your drinks and food in pubs and restaurants so wait staff will be on the way out too. McDonald’s is already mainly automated.

So just where are all these unskilled workers going to find a job when everything manual is done by machines?

Children all around the country are skipping meals and sleeping in cold houses.

Then the parents need to step up. Who would let that happen? I'd do anything to feed my children and keep them warm. Any job or second job if needs be rather than let it get to that.

Right, so suddenly your income stream is stopped, or halved, through no fault of your own because of the rollover onto UC. You know the money will be coming in six weeks or longer. You have a job and you manage perfectly well with it. What are you supposed to do? How do you find another job that will pay you upfront, source the childcare for it, juggle kids and work and travel with NO MONEY?

I mean, you could sell your car, but then how would you get to work? You could get a Wonga loan, but then you have to pay back eleventy billion quid. You could prostitute yourself I suppose, actually yes. That’s what those feckless scrounging bastards should do. No work ethic, see. If they did they’d be out on the streets selling themselves.

I’m counting down until someone suggests cancelling the sky telly and giving up the fags.

Yellow i was queuing in a store on Thursday when i noticed that the woman in front of me in the queue absolutely reeked.

Then i heard her on the phone............she had had no heating or hot water for a while and HA said they couldnt fix it until after Christmas..........this is a small local HA who i thought were better than that.

These kinds of things are a bloody danger to public health.