To not think getting married and taking on a huge mortgage qualifies as being a successful in life?

[Idreamofalandrover]

Just that really, everyone takes different paths and choices in life. Some society see as successful.

Anyway in this path surely the success comes later after you've had many years in a happy marriage and paid off the mortgage?

The actual meaning of "success" is completing a goal that you have set out to achieve. So clearly that is different for everyone?

You can’t define her success anymore than she can define yours.

Some people would certainly see buying a house and getting married as milestones to achieve. Others won’t because it’s just not important to them. Belittling others’ achievements (whether you agree they are achievements or not) just makes you look petty.

If marriage and a mortgage are the things your friend set out to achieve then of course she can view that as being successful. Success is a very relative concept and people’s wants and needs are very different.

Ok Idream you aren’t resentful of the huge ring and the huge mortgage. Maybe you just don’t like her.

Why should her definition of success bother you so much?

I suspect everyone in this thread will have a different version of what success means to them.

That’s fine, it’s their lives and they can pursue “success” in any way they choose.

Why do this woman’s choices annoy you so much?

I have a husband, and a mortgage. I don't think they're achievements though, or markers for success.
I have a nice child, with nice manners. That makes me feel successful.
I am going to have a masters degree soon. Success.
I have a job I love, and pays me well for what I do and the effort I put in. I feel that makes me a success.

Some people feel getting married is what makes them successful, rather than lucky, which is how I feel. And fair play to them.

Those two things are the marker for success because traditionally, a spouse and a secure home are the pre-requisites for having children, and having children is seen as the actual marker of successful adulthood/maturity/personal fulfilment (for women, in particular).

Ok Idream you aren’t resentful of the huge ring and the huge mortgage. Maybe you just don’t like her.

I put a huge onus on the size of my first engagement ring. Definitely compensating for the lack of decent fiancé.
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Why should her definition of success bother you so much?

I suspect everyone in this thread will have a different version of what success means to them.

That’s fine, it’s their lives and they can pursue “success” in any way they choose.

Why do this woman’s choices annoy you so much?*

I have a friend who constantly brings up her new mortgage, the wedding, how her fiancé is so in love with her and can't wait to have kids, that she drives a merc blah blah fucking blah to everyone usually with the intention to use it as a yardstick of how much better she is than them.

The mortgage and wedding are paid for by her fiancés family.
She pays for half of the car finance on a credit card because she lied to fiancé about how much it costs.
She got pregnant in June and had a secret abortion and told fiancé she miscarried because she doesn't want kids. At. All.
She doesn't even particularly like the fiancé and slags him and his family off to high heaven.

It pisses me off because her ivory tower is a pile of shitty coal and she's a bitch about it to everyone and involves them in her success.

Maybe OPs friend is like that.

I agree that those things in isolation do not make someone successful in life, but I do see my house as an instance in me succeeding (hope that makes sense). DH and I worked hard to get our house, it is our dream, forever home and I am proud of us for getting it. But it doesn’t make me successful in life.

I think being successful in life is a combination of different things and I think different people will use different markers, so for me my house does come into it, so does my career, but I don’t see my marriage as a marker of success (no offence to DH) but it’s more an added bonus in life

BadFeminist your friend sounds just delightful. .

But while I can imagine that you might start a thread about what a pain she is or how bad her behaviour is you don’t sound like you’d be bothered about her definition of success because you know it’s all smoke and mirrors.

The OP is bothered about her friend’s definition of success, bothered enough to start a thread.

I just wondered why?

BenLui the real question is why are you bothered about what I consider success?

It's exactly that BF, putting other people down as failures because their house is small or they have two failed marriages. What would have been a failure is keeping in an unhappy marriage.

Idream you started a thread for discussion, I’m discussing. That is rather the nature of a thread.

She absolutely shouldn’t be being rude about your house or your life though. That is very unkind. I’m sorry that she hurt you.

I don't even think reaching your potential is necessarily a marker of success...or not for me at least. I feel like that's a bit of an American thing...striving to be the best. I know I am capable of so much that I am not doing. But that's ok because I am happy, I feel like I am a positive force in my community and give to society. I will be happy if my children achieve happiness (And whatever it requires to support that).

It's exactly that BF, putting other people down as failures because their house is small or they have two failed marriages. What would have been a failure is keeping in an unhappy marriage.

I thought so. We obviously know similar people.
When I did the 2 point 4 children, stay at home, apron wearing jazz I hated it. Owning a house with a man I detested made me feel sick, the potential of marrying him gave me cold sweats

We are sold a dream in our early twenties that we need the house, the husband, the kids and the car.
It's ALL bullshit.

I regard my marriage as my biggest failure!

I think being happy and fulfilled is a success, as long as you haven't ridden roughshod over others in achieving that.

Bad having a spouse, a home and children isn’t bullshit if you are happy.

It’s just that you can be happy without those things. People live all sorts of happy lives.

I think being happy in life is something I would consider being a success.

Just so happens that having my mortgage and just getting engaged are things that contribute to my happiness. But it's not that way for everyone, everyone is different. The only reason a mortgage felt like a success to me was because me and dp worked ridiculously hard to save for our deposit and at times it seemed unachievable.

Being successful for me means being happy with my dp and dd, doing the things that we love together and making memories.

Benlui that was my point,

The house, marriage and car literally mean nothing. It's just something we are force fed as the dream and it's not. It just means people take huge commitments at younger ages where they make mistakes and end up having to start again.

Wow some anti marriage rants on here, out of all the people who were at school with me only a couple have split up, many of us are heading for or have reached the 30 year mark.I count that as successful, it certainly shows the skill of compromise and negotiation.

Success - contentment with what you have combined with drive to achieve your potential.

Failure - chasing material/fake status and doing things purely to achieve those.

You can be successful as a renter on minimum wage, and a failure as a billionaire with houses scattered globally.

There's a wonderful and sad true story (I read in The subtle art of not giving a f*ck) of a musician who got kicked out of a band. He was so angry about it it fuelled him to show them how wrong they were.

He got a new band together, and went to work. Soon they were achieving more and more things ...Huge tours, selling millions of records etc.

The man had everything.

Unfortunately this man founded Megadeth, but the band he was kicked out of was ........Metallica....And because he referenced his success relative to theirs - he was never satisfied.

The lesson is to find your own definition of success.

Bad I’m not sure the stats beat you out on that, people are increasingly getting married, buying homes and having children later than our parents’ generation did.

Getting married, building a family - this is hardly some new idea that’s being forced on us - it’s just what humans do. In pretty much every society on earth.

You don’t have to of course.

“Bear you out” not beat!

I don't want to ever marry- to me marriage is not a sign of success. I'm glad to see my friends happily married if that is what they want, but a small part of me is always very relieved it isn't me.

I’m not even sure that “being happy” is something to aim for.

After all, personal growth usually comes out of misery.

Bah.

My marriage, my house, my children and my family all mean a lot to me. They all make me happy and fulfilled.
They define success to me in making me feel happy, loved, proud, and a sense of achievement.
That's not bullshit.
Seems there are a lot of resentful people who like to project the things that went wrong for them on to other people.
Just let people feel happy or successful in whatever they want.
If someones putting you down for not having those things thats an entirely different matter - that doesn't mean having those things doesn't make you successful, it means they're a horrible person.

It's a success if it's what you want. For some people I expect it'd feel like failure.