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AIBU?

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Original poster

Ethical dilemma - job related, WWYD?

128 replies

PlaceAtTheTable · 19/12/2017 18:17

NC, obviously. I'll try to keep this brief:

One of my superiors at work, A, is in a bit of a legal pickle with regard to a client contract (not his fault but a series of rather unfortunate occurrences). This is someone who I feel immense loyalty to and for whom I'd happily get up at 3am to help bury a body.

I'm in a position to help due to some information I have obtained in a not entirely ethical manner from a second contact, B. In my defense: this information was offered to me freely and I didn't ask for it. I name dropped at an event and B pro-actively rang to tell me about this.

Basically, I couId kill two birds with one stone and help my A out while also doing B's bidding. Sounds perfect, right?

The problem is, that this would entail forcing a third party, C, into a comply-or-be-fired position that, while technically perfectly legal, is not what our firm states as its policy. I'm essentially meant to force them to solve A's problem against their will to get them out of B's hair either due to re-assignment or by engineering an unreasonable behaviour type of situation that would be grounds for dismissal (B's agenda).

This is obviously rather shady as it is, seeing as the info that B volunteered is highly confidential. On top of that, resolving the situation would probably catapult me into the pole position for promotion, so I personally stand to gain from doing it. Conversely, as A's subordinate, I stand to lose if A has legal issues even though they're not directly related to my job.

OTOH, C has a rep as a problem child and will arguably get the sack either way - it's all a question of when and how grounds for dismissal can be found. He's also legally obliged to do what I would need him to - that's just not what our HR decides to tell our employees (for PR reasons) but is actually very clear cut.

For background, in case it matters: I'm a middle manager in a large corporation, as is C. A is upper management. B's general area is HR.

So, yeah, WWYD? Help friends in need and and leverage what's coming either way or refuse to play ball, lose out and feel superior due to my impeccable ethics?

OP posts:
CotswoldStrife · 19/12/2017 18:24

I would be wary of B's reason for volunteering the information tbh. It sounds as if she wants you to take the fall for C's sacking.

Thelittlethingsinlife · 19/12/2017 18:25

I'm struggling to understand what's going on but I would go with your gut instinct on what feels right.

Thebluedog · 19/12/2017 18:27

I’m afraid I would always do what’s legally and morally right. Might not help A but you’ve got to do what’s right, you need to sleep at night after all

cornishmumtobe · 19/12/2017 18:28

Struggled to follow but I think if you are sure you've been given reliable information and it helps A then that's what I would do (rightly or wrongly)

twiney · 19/12/2017 18:29

I would do it. Its business: you help A, B gets a problem solved, and you get promoted. 3 vs 1.

Original poster
PlaceAtTheTable · 19/12/2017 18:32

I'm actually quite clear on B's agenda: C is a hard-to-place underperformer who has recently opted to benefit from newly available options that make them even harder to place.

B obviously wants to engineer a situation along the lines of 'you were in limbo for a few months, then A offered placement, so you either take it or we won't be able to keep you at [firm]' type of ultimatum.

Technically, C is not free to chose. As per our internal OR, he is.

The risk of me taking the fall is hence non-existent. I'm merely meant to demand that C be assigned to A's team due to urgent need. Being placed with A, though, is not in line with C's wishes - and according to our internal PR (though our contract), he gets to decide that.

OP posts:
Fettuccinecarbonara · 19/12/2017 18:32

Could you talk to C and tell them what you know, and how you are duty bound to report it? You could then suggest to C that if they resigned they could continue to work in the field rather than face any forthcoming disciplinary sanctions?

You could have this chat to C on a without prejudice/protected basis, thus allowing C to walk away with dignity; and retaining your dignity too.

After all, if B discloses it, (given that it seems they're not very picky with who they disclose to, or how; then presumably you AND C could lose their jobs, if it was found out that you knew but failed to act on this information.

You need to do what is right for your job, whilst protecting yourself at the same time. However, you can also help C not be fired, so I'd probably do that if I could.

Good luck, I'd not like to be in your shoes.

stilltheykeepcoming · 19/12/2017 18:33

It seems suspiciously coincidental - I would suggest to B that if their highly confidential information can directly help A while solving their own issue with C, then they should find a way to tell A themselves rather than getting you to do it.

WhataLovelyPear · 19/12/2017 18:34

Did B impart the information on the understanding that you would keep it confidential? If not, I would bestow the info on A and then it is up to A whether to use this info or not (after all, extra responsibility is what A is presumably paid to do).

TashieWoo · 19/12/2017 18:34

It is difficult to follow, but I would be wary of doing anything to help B as anyone in HR should be trusted not to disclose confidential information and it sounds like they have an ulterior motive, ie. they may not care if it doesn’t go your way and you end up in trouble. If you say that B gave you this information then it is your word against theirs - who is more likely to be believed? Also I think I would be too concerned about everything going wrong and potentially facing disciplinary action myself to go through with this. Let A sort their own problems out and get a promotion on your own merits, and walk away with your head held high.

Original poster
PlaceAtTheTable · 19/12/2017 18:37

And, no, going out of my way to help C is not an option. C and I have crossed paths. C is a whiny pain in the arse, and if I had the chance to fire them myself, I gladly would.

I'm just not sure about using info obtained in a rather shady manner to help engineer a situation.

OP posts:
Original poster
PlaceAtTheTable · 19/12/2017 18:41

And, FWIW, A is in the know. A favours doing it and would definitely protect me if push came to shove. A just can't pull it off without me because I'm the one with the contact's to make it happen.

OP posts:
Fettuccinecarbonara · 19/12/2017 18:41

Let's assume you told A what you know: would they believe you? Would they have to speak to B to affirm? Would B offer the information to A if asked? Could A find the information themselves once tipped off?

If you don't tell A, nothing changes. This is an easy option, but not necessarily the right one. What happens if it later comes to light?
What happens if it comes to light that you knew but did nothing?

If you and C don't get along, then they views are somewhat irrelevant. But I wouldn't act in a malicious way.

twiney · 19/12/2017 18:42

I was going to say that what I did would depend on C's performance: is he underperforming because struggling in life or out of his depth at work, or underperforming because he's lazy and couldn't give a shit? If the latter, I would prioritise A without hesitation.

Fettuccinecarbonara · 19/12/2017 18:42

Oh, I see that A already knows.

Will it need to go higher than A?
If not, and A will deal with it, why not?

stilltheykeepcoming · 19/12/2017 18:45

Is there a person 'D' who knows the industry who you could run this by (without mentioning names of course)?

Original poster
PlaceAtTheTable · 19/12/2017 18:45

@twiney, elements of the latter combined with C just not having the brains required in this position, based on my experience of C. Mostly just generally incompetent combined with whiny.

OP posts:
Original poster
PlaceAtTheTable · 19/12/2017 18:47

@stilltheykeepcoming, there's A's boss - C-level type. He'd tell me to do it and promise me a promotion in exchange.

Outside the firm: not so much. The people I studied with - but I'm the overachiever among us and the only one to have landed a management level job at this type of firm.

OP posts:
twiney · 19/12/2017 18:47

Then go for it

Original poster
PlaceAtTheTable · 19/12/2017 18:57

I think I might go for it ... it would really help A, who's been a mentor and professional father figure for years, and I'm friends with B.

I have no loyalty at all to, and actually dislike, C on a personal level.

I'm just struggling with how shady this feels. Then again, making backroom deals is what got me thus far and makes me good at what I do. It normally includes personal as opposed to someone else's sacrifice, though...

OP posts:
twiney · 19/12/2017 19:00

Well the thing is...C wont necessarily be fired, will he? He can just accept to be transfered or whatever it is?

ClothEaredBint · 19/12/2017 19:02

If B volunteered the information, then your method of obtaining it isn't shady or immoral, its not like you asked for it or went digging.

If saving your boss means throwing someone. who is a waste of space and incapable of doing their job competently and will probably get dismissed at some point anyway, under the bus and there is no Ethical/moral dilemma.

Save A.

VladmirsPoutine · 19/12/2017 19:04

You seem to be carrying on as if you are in an episode of Law and Order.

Original poster
PlaceAtTheTable · 19/12/2017 19:06

No, C would be given the choice to be assigned to A against his will or be in breach of contract.

The party line on the subject is that there is no such thing as forced re-assignment. Then again, C as a middle manager should actually know that this means '... unless no assignment that corresponds to your personal preferences can be found - it means we try but we don't promise'.

The fact that C is blissfully unaware is entirely due to C's own incompetence.

OP posts:
Trills · 19/12/2017 19:07

So if you do do this thing, C will be in a position where they are told "you must join this team or else you have no job".

If you do not do this thing, A will have problems with a client contract - is that right?

Perhaps B should not have given you this information, but you have it now and so choosing to do nothing is still making a choice.

It seems that you have been put in a position where either A or C will have a bad time whichever you choose. A is someone you like and someone who will be useful to you. C is someone you dislike and who is unlikely to ever do you a favour.

I think I know what I'd do.