Ethical dilemma - job related, WWYD?

[PlaceAtTheTable]

NC, obviously. I'll try to keep this brief:

One of my superiors at work, A, is in a bit of a legal pickle with regard to a client contract (not his fault but a series of rather unfortunate occurrences). This is someone who I feel immense loyalty to and for whom I'd happily get up at 3am to help bury a body.

I'm in a position to help due to some information I have obtained in a not entirely ethical manner from a second contact, B. In my defense: this information was offered to me freely and I didn't ask for it. I name dropped at an event and B pro-actively rang to tell me about this.

Basically, I couId kill two birds with one stone and help my A out while also doing B's bidding. Sounds perfect, right?

The problem is, that this would entail forcing a third party, C, into a comply-or-be-fired position that, while technically perfectly legal, is not what our firm states as its policy. I'm essentially meant to force them to solve A's problem against their will to get them out of B's hair either due to re-assignment or by engineering an unreasonable behaviour type of situation that would be grounds for dismissal (B's agenda).

This is obviously rather shady as it is, seeing as the info that B volunteered is highly confidential. On top of that, resolving the situation would probably catapult me into the pole position for promotion, so I personally stand to gain from doing it. Conversely, as A's subordinate, I stand to lose if A has legal issues even though they're not directly related to my job.

OTOH, C has a rep as a problem child and will arguably get the sack either way - it's all a question of when and how grounds for dismissal can be found. He's also legally obliged to do what I would need him to - that's just not what our HR decides to tell our employees (for PR reasons) but is actually very clear cut.

For background, in case it matters: I'm a middle manager in a large corporation, as is C. A is upper management. B's general area is HR.

So, yeah, WWYD? Help friends in need and and leverage what's coming either way or refuse to play ball, lose out and feel superior due to my impeccable ethics?

I also don’t see why you need to be involved. Somebody with skin in the game (probably C’s boss) needs to be having a “car park chat*” with C to explain they don’t really have a choice and the job with A is a life line and if they don’t take it they are likely to be out the door.

*car park chat = off the record discussion that presents itself as being casual and helpful but in reality tends to deliver an ultimatum or warning.

Flattering and persuading C was going to be my first suggestion but then I saw he has declined the offer.

C needs some pressure applied.

I've got a bit confused with the As, Bs and Cs!

This has the potential to cost A or C their job. In either case, it could end up at a tribunal. To be blunt, no 'rising star' would risk their reputation and/or career on this.

The way I'm reading it was that C should be doing the job A requires them to do for the sake of the good of the organisation but believes due to recent organisational policy that they have the right to decline this particular type of work.

A has so far believed this and therefore remains stuck, but based on information passed to you by B, A now knows that actually C can't refuse to do the work, they have misinterpreted the policy.

The only position that has changed is that you and A now know you have leverage against C to make them do the work. If C had been a team player all along C would already have agreed to do the work and none of this would be happening.

Bs department want rid of C and see this current situation as a win win.

Don’t blackmail anyone. That’s never a good plan.

If this is a case of “hello c, i know a asked you to take this role before and you refused based on policy x but based on your contract/policy y which overrides policy x I’m afraid I am giving you a direct order to support a in this role” then that’s shitty for c but ultimately just business.

If it involves leaning on them with information you shouldn’t know then don’t do it. Some of my colleagues record conversations they have now - it’s not worth the risk.

Posted too soon...

I would do it OP, sounds like the writing is on the wall for C anyway, you are actually potentially offering them a lifeline rather than screwing them over.

Not your fault if they turn it down.

Don't get involved.

They aren't called Inhuman Resources for nothing. You are being played.

I think KateAdie has a good point. If C can be ordered to do this thing, even if they don't realise it yet, I'm not sure why you are required - even with your contacts - other than to take the rap in some way if things go wrong. Tread very carefully.

Considering their morals, are you very sure B is not creating a potential future blackmail item against you? Not to be used right now, but to be banked for later? You have a good intergalactic analogy, but maybe watch The Godfather as well. It all sounds dodgy as hell to me, as there seem to be much more straightforward solutions available as many have pointed out already.

Th inconsistencies are actually glaring:
-if A stands to lose so much, why not clearly ask C again for his contribution and deal directly with B/HR on any refusal?
-if B knows C already refused, why need a second refusal through you?
-I don’t buy that B ‘accidentally’ made you aware of anything. Humbug. B is HR at a seemingly large professional organisation.
-and if this is such a large organisation with a contractual problem (and let’s face it, the contract is between the company and the client, not D or now A personally (only their jobs were/are on the line), the company needs a solution. You think this is how professional organisations work? They would strong-arm C if he is the solution, or get the one from abroad in. Better for reputation and cheaper than a lawsuit.

You seem recently graduated, and although I am sure you are very good, nobody is indispensable. You sound too flattered by both A (mentor figure) and B (HR/ head office) to see where this is going.

And most of all: by playing this game you lose your integrity. And for what??

I agree, I think all the "rising star", "likeky to be running the place by 2020" chat has turned your head. The reality is that rising stars rise regardless - if they think you have so much potential they wouldn't be embroiling you in a shady situation that doesn't need to be shady - they're testing you to see how far they can make you their fall guy.

If C has been offered the role and turned it down A or B need to explain that turning it down isn't an option. I don't get where you are in that relationship so can't see why an approach from you would carry more weight than A who is the contract manager.

I'd keep an eye on B given they've shown their colours by sharing information they shouldn't have any by encouraging blackmail of a colleague. By joining in you make yourself as bad as they are.

It's utterly irrelevant whether A is a friend, C is good at their job etc etc people have a right to transparency in their employment and if C has performance issues HR should be managing these through usual process - it's none of your business and should have no bearing on your treatment of C.

Rising stars rise regardless, without compromising their integrity. Hold yourself to the standard you'd like to be treated by, because sooner or later that's what'll happen.

Do only what is legally and ethically correct. Seriously. I’ve been on employment panels and anything not done in line with company policy or the law can land you in the shit, even if you don’t realise it at the time. If C finds out what you’ve done can they, at any point, claim unfair or constructive dismissal, or discrimination? If so, back away. If they’re that bad they’ll be let go anyway.

Can you say if what your being asked to do is just explain to C that they don't have a choice and have to take the job ? If so I think that's ok but why doesn't A do this? Or are you actually being asked to blackmail him using confidential information that you should have no knowledge of? If so no way would I do this why isn't B doing it ? You also say as long as A is there you will be ok so do you think A will always be there ? Would they protect you over themselves ? I think it sounds dodgy and if you are a rising star and get to the top do you want this coming back to haunt you at some point .

Sorry to be a party pooper on what is a great thread BUT ...

OP please be careful what you post on an open forum. This sounds like potentially commercially sensitive information and with the best will in the world MN can only advise so far with understandably vague details and analogies. What you stand to lose (your job) against what you stand to gain (advice from people who don’t have all the information to hand) is quite vast.

Reading between the lines here you could get in some hot water. A already has the information, if he is as powerful in the organisation as he is being portrayed then he will have the means to execute this without dirtying your hands. A good manager wouldn’t want to put you at risk. Let them deal with C in the right way, if C deserves to be sacked then it will happen with or without your input.

I think if A has already approached C, and he’s turned it down, then you shouldn’t be needed to “blackmail” him - at that point, surely HR (B) steps in to say “Actually C the Company requires you to take this placement - no other suitable placement can be found.”

This. You don't need to blackmail him if it's actually company policy??

Im sure you'd have considered this though and don't know why you'd prefer to blackmail the poor bloke?

It sounds a little like you're making this personal.

The 'bury a body with A' and 'crossing paths' with C suggests that this is not just about business.

Do what you can live with.

OP the answers on here are torn!

Having slept on it, what do you reckon?

I should have added:

A good rule of thumb on professional ethics is that if you have to ask whether something is ethical it probably isn't. So don't do it.

And I'm sure the Francis Underhills of this world who intend to do something unethical would frame it a different way: If you intend to do something unethical, don't ask and don't tell anyone.

bluescreen I agree. If you have to ask and/or look for justification the chances are you shouldn't do it.

Luckily, one of the other irons I had in the fire ended up working out.

Relieved to the max that I didn't have to go there and make that call. The other solution I've found is great; A's over the moon and B will, I'm afraid, have to find a different way out of the C problem.

Worked out beautifully

That’s a good outcome!

Well done.

Perfect outcome

Be careful who you fuck over on your way up, you never know who you'll need on your way back down