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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be pissed off at being 'just' a nurse?

613 replies

bottleofwater · 18/12/2017 22:45

Three times in the last week Ive had different family members making sarky comments regarding some recent achievements & promotion at work.

Usually comments along the lines of "Oh Florence Nightingale you will be telling the Doctors what to do now" " You will be a surgeon in no time" & " What do nurses know about blood pressures, they are not doctors".

Im so fed up of how its like being a nurse is rubbish & that only Doctors are of any value Angry

Also comments regarding how I dont make the same amount of money as other family members but thats probably another thread!

Not sure what they think nurses actually do but aibu to be pissed off at the constant sneering at me?

OP posts:
LEMtheoriginal · 20/12/2017 08:47

I have a PhD in science. I have chosen to train to be "just" a veterinary nurse. The training is bloody tough and my background is in biology! So many people ask me why I didn't become a vet but I can honestly say that I much prefer "just" being a nurse. I get to make things feel better . I get to care for sick animals and my job is far more involved with the patient than the vet. Ok so I'm not performing surgery or diagnosing - I'll leave that level of responsibility to folk much more suited to it than I (The vets) while I get on with the actual job of making animals better and reassuring their owners.

TheVoiceOfTreason · 20/12/2017 08:53

"You will be a surgeon at this rate" sounds like it was at very least intended as a compliment and meant that the level of skill you have demonstrated goes above and beyond the normal expectations/requirements of a nurse but if it's part of a wider pattern then I can see why it would piss you off! I think some older people don't necessarily realise that nurses take on greater clinical responsibilities these days than they did historically, hence it's now a graduate profession. In fairness I only really know that myself because of my sister in law being a nurse.

Fwiw, I don't think anyone with half a brain thinks of nurses as being "just" nurses. Personally I think all nurses are super heroes and that you should all be valued and paid more for the amazing job you do, which I could never in a million years do (due to being too squeamish and ill equipped to cope with the heartache of losing patients)

FruitCider · 20/12/2017 08:57

Ringle sadly the public and my patients hate me. The public feel its a waste of money providing healthcare to prisoners, people feel prisoners should either be executed or left to rot. Prisoners hate me because I’m a detox nurse so my job is to strip them of any illicit drugs AND non essential medication such as pregabalin, quetiapine, codeine, amitryptaline (which I can never bloody spell), mirtazepine, olanzepine, trazadone. Only those with a well established history and need for those items remain on them... 95% are detoxed from all of them. That makes prisoners very angry towards me unsurprisingly. But yes my income is ok. It’s not enough for me to own my home, but thats another issue....

BiglyBadgers · 20/12/2017 08:58

However, a modest income with job you love, at least some of the public grateful and at least a few more years of a great pension...... it could be worse!

I think you are right to a certain extent ringle. It could be worse, but on the other hand I don't think we should be excepting a crappy situation just because it could be even crappier. I think we should be campaigning to ensure that everyone has a job that pays commensurate to their level of risk and responsibility with a minimum being enough to live a decent life on. We should be raising everyone up rather than pushing people down to the lowest common denominator.

This thread has been about nurses, but I would argue that there are many other professions that deserve more pay and respect. Home care workers have a frankly appalling deal with incredibly low pay and bad working conditions, particularly considering what they do for people. Nursery staff are also paid peanuts considering they have responsibility for our children. As a very wise accountant once said to me "It says something terrible about the society we live in that you get paid more to look after money than you do to look after people"

GingerbreadMa · 20/12/2017 08:58

Its not saying "im as good as/better than/as clever as a doctor" to state that everybodys role has been stepped up a level without any compensation for the extra responsibility or stress.

Hcas running bays, taking bloods and some even giving meds
Nurses are doing clinical things that only doctors used to do and making more clinical decisions
Newly qualified doctors doing what senior house officers and regiatrars used to do
F2s and registrars doing what consultants used to do
Consultants have longer theatre lists that go on for later, treat more people than ever before, their jobs are more complex too

Nurses dont have doctor complexes. But junior staff nurses ARE doing what junior house officers used to do 15/20 yrs ago!

RebornSlippy · 20/12/2017 09:01

"It says something terrible about the society we live in that you get paid more to look after money than you do to look after people"

Well, ain't that the truth. Well said that man.

FruitCider · 20/12/2017 09:02

"It says something terrible about the society we live in that you get paid more to look after money than you do to look after people"

Hear hear!!!

ringle · 20/12/2017 09:21

tbh, I think that what fruit does is amazing.

but I don't think £27k is that awful because the job security and pension are really rare special commodities nowadays.

As you can probably guess, I come from a profession that used to be "job for life" where the average pay is now about half what we all thought it would be and most people in my field have at one point or the other been made redundant, often for long periods of time! That's market economics for you.I don't recommend it!

Anyway, it's all complicated but three cheers for nurses, without whom we'd all be blooming dead.

ZivaDiva · 20/12/2017 09:22

I don’t think anyone has said that nurses should be paid the same as doctors but that their role is worthy of respect.
Over the past 29 years their role has broadened without a corresponding increase in pay in common with many previously junior HCP positions.
My role as a paramedic has increased in terms of responsibility enormously. I decide what drugs to give, what dosage, how to give them and cannulate and intubate. I am under increasing pressure to discaharge at scene and am mostly working alone or as the only clinician at a job, I decide if we start resuscitation and when to stop and I have to be able to defend that decision in a coroners court..
I don’t think I’m badly paid at £33k including unsocial hours allowance but it is a huge amount of responsibly. Doctors who come out for a shift are amazed at the level of isolated decision making we are expected to do and the vast majority of them have an increased respect for the challenges we face. It’s a totally different ball game to my previous job in charge of millions of $ for which I was paid more.
I think it’s the same for nurses, all we are asking is for some respect, we are not ‘just’ anything.

whiskyowl · 20/12/2017 09:25

I think your family are being breathtakingly rude. I wanted to add that your job is so important and valuable, and while they may not be grateful to you for doing it, loads of the rest of us are. Thank you. Flowers

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 20/12/2017 09:34

but I don't think £27k is that awful because the job security and pension are really rare special commodities nowadays.

I agree however mental health services are very often the first to be sold off to private companies and the t&cs for staff when this happens are only protected for a short time. I know a few people who have returned to working on acute wards very late in their careers because the services they work for were tendered out to private companies and they couldn't afford to lose out on the pension. I personally gave back word on a post I got (funnily enough in a prison) after I heard the service was going out to tender... 6 months later it was taken over by a charity and they'd had redundancies so glad I made the decision.

FruitCider · 20/12/2017 09:35

My job isn’t that secure... my service is due to be retendered. The pension is vvv good, but £180 a month for it does sting. As does the loss of time with my child at weekends and evenings, sometimes I don’t see them from Sunday night until Thursday morning because of my shift pattern.

I think I’m worth £31k a year, and looking at the maths nurses have had a 14% pay cut in real terms so my instinct is about right. If pay had kept up with inflation I would be paid what I think I’m worth. I don’t expect to ever be able to afford a mansion or long haul holidays on a regular basis, I mean I’m even happy with my 14 year old car. But if my partner and I (both band 5s) were paid the 14% extra we could afford to buy a house, now THAT would be life changing.

The majority of people working for the nhs aren’t greedy, we know our pension is previous and though I feel it’s a profession and not a vocation we wouldn’t do the job if we didn’t love it. It’s just a bit crap when I see people in roles with far less responsibility getting paid far more money, that’s all x

FruitCider · 20/12/2017 09:36

formerly cross posted with you, oh the irony! If we lose the tender I’m going to jump to secure services I think x

crunchymint · 20/12/2017 09:58

Depends where you live I guess. Where I live wages are low, as are house prices. £27k is a decent wage and plenty of skilled and responsible jobs are paid around that amount or less.

FruitCider · 20/12/2017 10:09

Well average 2 bedroom house price where I live is £260k so in comparison £27k isn’t very much. But having lived in the midland I can understand why £27k can seem plenty to some.

BiglyBadgers · 20/12/2017 10:36

but I don't think £27k is that awful because the job security and pension are really rare special commodities nowadays.

Firstly as others have pointed out these roles are no longer offering job for life security in the way they used to and a lot of people still assume. Secondly, the lovely pension is being steadily picked away at. A public sector worker in their twenties or thirties should not assume they will be getting the same size of payout when they retire as they would get if they retired now.

Depends where you live I guess. Where I live wages are low, as are house prices. £27k is a decent wage and plenty of skilled and responsible jobs are paid around that amount or less.

Of course there is a difference in cost of living and £27k will get you more in other areas. I live in an expensive area of the south, and I really struggled to buy a very modest 2 bedroom place earning significantly more than that.

I also can't think of other jobs that aren't also ridiculously underpaid that have the same sorts of responsibility and risks as a role like Fruits. When you compare it to other industries and take the view that human life is actually worth something it is very low paid. I think Fruits very modest request of £31k is low for what she does.

As comparison, I worked as a project manager in a large organisation. I managed five people, I managed projects worth modest amounts of money that could perhaps be argued to improve people's lives to some degree. If I made a mindboggling cock up the worst that would happen would be that it would cost the organisation a bit more money, some people would be mildly inconvenienced and possibly a bit embarrassed. I worked 9-5 with flexitime, a pretty good pension, and ok maternity. It could be stressful when deadlines were tight and crazily unreasonable, but if I asked the question "will anyone die?" The answer would always, without question be no. I earned £36k. I could have moved to another organisation in a similar role and easily expected to earn £40-50k.

If I compared the level of genuine risk to life and limb of that job with what Fruit does I find it extraordinary that people can argue that she deserves less money than people in the sort of job I did.

While we are here let's look at some other jobs:
Police constable earns £23k upon completion of initial training raising to £38k after 7 years
Train drivers start on £24k rising to £39k after training period

I could go on. I really do dispute that there are jobs outside the care sector (petty much all of which is underpaid) with similar levels of risk and responsibility that are paid similar amounts.

ringle · 20/12/2017 11:20

"A public sector worker in their twenties or thirties should not assume they will be getting the same size of payout when they retire as they would get if they retired now."

As an ignorant-but-happy-to-be-educated member of the public, I (currently!) think this is the crux of the matter.

Re Fruit - I am very much struck by the lack of job security and very sorry to hear about it. You ought to have security in return for your vocational role, because you don't have the opportunity to significantly increase your earnings. If I thought Jeremy Corbyn could properly nationalise the NHS (including GPs) I think I would vote for him. I think that job security and decent pension is a fair recompense for a mediocre salary and if you take away the security and pension what is there left? I think most of the people I would want as doctors would agree and would still go into medicine if they had good conditions and a sense of being valued. The whole "stuff their mouths with gold" thing does not seem to have worked.

ringle · 20/12/2017 11:20

Bigly re the rights and wrongs I do agree with you. I guess it has always been this way?

FruitCider · 20/12/2017 11:44

Yes people still think that nurses get a final salary pension... what I actually get is 1/54th of my career average revalued earnings for every year I pay in. I contribute 7.6% of my salary for this. I can’t draw it until I hit state retirement age. It’s still extremely good. But it’s nowhere near as good as 1/30th of final salary for 7.6% with retirement age of 55, which a lot of people think I have.

BiglyBadgers · 20/12/2017 11:50

I think that job security and decent pension is a fair recompense for a mediocre salary and if you take away the security and pension what is there left?

Yes, this is absolutely true. I don't think people have realised the impact of pension changes and loss of in security on staff moral across the public sector. It is not something a lot of people are even aware of, but makes a huge difference to staff. If you have a low salary you don't have the resources to suddenly start saving to make up for the loss of future pension or the risk of job loss. It puts people in a really difficult position.

BiglyBadgers · 20/12/2017 11:56

Oh, and of course for nurses qualifying in 3 years time they will now also have to take student loan repayments out of their wages. Before this year nurses got an NHS bursary, but this is now gone and they have student loans. This will be another smallish, yet noteworthy reduction in nurses pay.

crunchymint · 20/12/2017 12:07

I have read nurses saying they are glad there is now no bursary as it was attracting the wrong kind of people. No idea of this is true by the way.

BiglyBadgers · 20/12/2017 12:10

I haven't met a single nurse or nursing student (and I am in contact with hundreds) who have expressed anything but horror at the removal of the nursing bursary. I have never heard, read or seen the view you mention crunchy, so if some do have it I can confidently say it is not commonly held.

crunchymint · 20/12/2017 12:11

Agree that plenty of people in public sector accepted lower wages and no benefits like private healthcare or company car, in return for job security and decent pension.Take those away and there are no perks at all in the public sector. Not even a paid for xmas party or tea and coffee provided.
There is lots of public sector bashing, but a lot of the public sector is struggling to attract appropriately qualified and experienced staff. If this happened in the private sector wages and/or benefits would rise. That does not happen in the public sector. No one seems to have got the memo that if you want decent staff who are skilled and qualified, you need to be able to attract them.

crunchymint · 20/12/2017 12:11

BiglyBadgers Okay thanks. I was surprised to read that.