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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be pissed off at being 'just' a nurse?

613 replies

bottleofwater · 18/12/2017 22:45

Three times in the last week Ive had different family members making sarky comments regarding some recent achievements & promotion at work.

Usually comments along the lines of "Oh Florence Nightingale you will be telling the Doctors what to do now" " You will be a surgeon in no time" & " What do nurses know about blood pressures, they are not doctors".

Im so fed up of how its like being a nurse is rubbish & that only Doctors are of any value Angry

Also comments regarding how I dont make the same amount of money as other family members but thats probably another thread!

Not sure what they think nurses actually do but aibu to be pissed off at the constant sneering at me?

OP posts:
Headofthehive55 · 19/12/2017 22:05

So no, garden I wasn't thinking about tasks, rather the entire training scheme.

GetOutOfMYGarden · 19/12/2017 22:06

Headofthehive55 But where are these supposed training roles where both doctors and nurses are applying to the same one? They don't exist for good reason.

And clinical skills trainers are different completely to the situation described about nurses training the medical students a lot. A nurse can show medical students clinical skills, sure - there's one amazing nurse who taught me a trick he uses on cannulas that is bloody brilliant.

But a nurse cannot supervise a medical student doing a medical role with real patients. Cannot and should not happen. Their histories and examinations should be being presented to a doctor who can tie up the pathophysiology behind it for them, guide them further through diagnostic processes, and explain the MoA of the treatments. A nurse may be able to do bits of that for them, but can't do all of that because it's doctoring.

Headofthehive55 · 19/12/2017 22:10

garden
I already said. Public health training.
You apply to the deanery.

GetOutOfMYGarden · 19/12/2017 22:15

Public health physicians and public health nurses are two different roles. Public health training for doctors requires completion of F2 and a medical degree to get the NTN to become a public health trainee.

Different path completely. It's like saying that the respiratory trainee and specialist respiratory nurse are training the same way for the same job.

NeilPetark · 19/12/2017 22:15

It was a very rare sight to find a nurse wheeling a commode behind a curtain

Not in paediatrics it isn’t.

RebornSlippy · 19/12/2017 22:16

@NeilPetark, I've never worked on Paediatric wards so I'll take your word on that.

Headofthehive55 · 19/12/2017 22:18

You go through oriel the same garden but end up being on the up register of public health rather than via the GMC. But you are entitled to apply for consultants posts.

Headofthehive55 · 19/12/2017 22:20

I'm not talking about public health nursing.
You can see the eligibility criteria by looking on the faculty of public heaths website, under FAQ. garden

GingerbreadMa · 19/12/2017 22:22

Most nurses will never progress beyond a band 5 so your argument is futile anyway

"If they studied for further qualifications, took on more responsibility, led teams, managed people they could earn more. This is how it works in any profession! You don't just automatically get given more and more money for coasting at one grade your entire career.!!! why do nurses think they are different to anyone else?"

Most of the senior ward nurses within a ward team are still band 5.
Senior band 5s take charge of the ward and are often the most senior nurse on shift, they have acredited post grad uni qualifications that allow them to asess students on the ward, will have gained all the extended clinical skills required for their speciality and have taken lots of extra training and possibly have a masters or at least some credits towards masters or post grad certs. They are in charge of audits and will usually be a link trainer for their colleagues!

Thats all within a senior band 5s days work!

Does that sound like coasting with no responsibilities or study to you? Really?

GetOutOfMYGarden · 19/12/2017 22:23

Nursing consultant posts are not the same as consultant doctor posts. Look at the pay scheme for those posts - AfC is not used for doctors ever. It's because the term 'consultant' is not protected (nor exclusive to healthcare) that it's used for both roles in public health - people 'consult' with whoever is in those posts.

Headofthehive55 · 19/12/2017 22:28

garden
They aren't nursing consultant posts.
They are public health posts.

ShapelyBingoWing · 19/12/2017 22:33

Angry I can't even get to the end of this thread without commenting.

I would also like to point out that old hierarchical model has been dropped because it was downright dangerous for patients. If nurses just do what doctors tell them with no questions then patient safety is compromised. It's a separate profession for a reason, because we need to be able to challenge. As someone else pointed out, if I give patient wrongly prescribed medicine I will be seen as responsible, not just the prescriber.

^this. I'm a 2nd year student paediatric nurse. Despite my inexperience, even I have had to challenge doctors multiple times on medications and dosage. I've also had to refuse to comply with an 'order' barked at me by a doctor that would have been unsafe. Nurses (and nursing students) really aren't subservient to doctors. Treatment plans and care plans, though closely linked, aren't the same thing. Nurses blindly delivering a doctor's treatment plan is unsafe. They are their patients' advocates, their safety nets, and often disagree with doctors to the extent of ceasing a treatment they believe to be detrimental. The two roles are complimentary, not hierarchical.

The more ward experience I get, the more I realise that the public as a whole remain woefully misinformed about the fact that the role of the nurse has undergone drastic changes. This thread confirms that.

I'm appalled that there are people here who really think the nurse/doctor relationship is like that between a teaching assistant and a teacher. Nurses are there to help the patient, not the doctor.

Headofthehive55 · 19/12/2017 22:33

garden
Look at the nhs jobs website. The jobs are headlined public health consultant medicine / public health consultant.
You need to be either on the gmc register or the uk public health register for specialists. They appear to be paid not on afc.

mogulfield · 19/12/2017 22:38

shapely well said, as a member of the public who has used the NHS a lot recently as my son has been poorly, I was very impressed with the level of knowledge and care provided by the nurses. So some members of the public do appreciate the complicated training you go through and professional level of skill you have, in fact most do 👍

Headofthehive55 · 19/12/2017 23:08

This is the advert garden
It is one job, which can be done by either a nurse or dr.

To be pissed off at being 'just' a nurse?
TiffanyDoggett · 19/12/2017 23:16

I've only made it to page 13 but @BiglyBadgers wins the thread with her reply to Amelia Jeremy Hunt: If you are doing such a job Amelia I would definitely support your fight for better pay and recognition. Of course if you want the pay of a nurse you could train as one. It is so very easy after all
GrinGrinGrin**
Quite!

I do find this pitting doctors against nursing a bit beneath us all though. They are both highly skilled different professions and we shouldn't be putting down doctors to raise up nurses.

ringle · 19/12/2017 23:16

Yes Bigly.

I think it's really important for public sector campaigners to include the value of the pension and keep it in mind

TiffanyDoggett · 19/12/2017 23:17

I may need some additional training in the use of mn bold typing Blush

ringle · 19/12/2017 23:29

Fruit,
Bloody hell.
Yes, that is worth more than £100/month.
That was an eye opener. Do you enjoy it?

FruitCider · 20/12/2017 07:31

ringle I do love it very much, but £27k doesn’t seem very generous for taking charge of 130 Prisoners, 30 of which are in the first 5 days of detox and the other 100 are constantly fighting/intoxicated on spice. Any major incidents - roof top protests, cell extractions, suicide attempts, drug overdoses, fights with prison shanks I am there. I think the documentary highlights prison nurses very well even though it’s not it’s primary purpose as you can see the nurses at work x

ringle · 20/12/2017 08:36

Wow. Have you considered being a man?

ringle · 20/12/2017 08:37

Sorry mean have you considered becoming a man in order to be paid more (gender pay gap comment there....)

ringle · 20/12/2017 08:41

Fruit, you are right it isn't a king's ransom.

However, a modest income with job you love, at least some of the public grateful and at least a few more years of a great pension...... it could be worse!

blackteasplease · 20/12/2017 08:42

But nursing is just a different job to doctor. It's not "lesser". Doctors would struggle doing the job of nurse because it's a different skill set.

I feel sorry for nurses I see in hospial who seem forced to do the job of "doctor lite" rather than doing any caring for the patients.

Disclaimer- I'm not a doctor or nurse or anything medical.

Ivehadtonamechangeforthis · 20/12/2017 08:46

Nurses are pretty much running wards now, doctors only being called when 'necessary' and for rounds.

YANBU and their comments sound really bigoted and ignorant.