To refuse to visit the inlaws this Christmas?

[Grewia]

My inlaws are lovely generous people, but illness has resulted in them living in an untidy and unclean home. When visiting I have cleaned a room to help out, encouraged their other children who live locally to help more with the cleaning and purchased and fitted a toilet seat. The first time I visited I left the next morning. Since then I've tried to accept it, but it's not a small issue. The floor is rotting in the bathroom, rotting food on the stairs, utterly filthy toilet, stuff everywhere on every surface. I saw a piano used once for icing a cake, the rack was placed on the keys as there was no other available surface. When I purchased a toilet seat one visit, there hadn't been one for years and they were very offended.
By far my biggest issue is the kitchen, in which the cooker is never cleaned and is encrusted, the floor is similarly so, and there is washing up piled on every surface. Food is often left out. When I visited once, there was no bin. There is frequently cat litter all over the floor, although shredded paper is often used in the litter tray. The fridge is never emptied and is refilled, leading to rotted food dripping onto food below and the sink is often inaccessible.
Each Christmas we have visited for a week, we don't live close enough to visit for a day. This year we have a newborn and I'm concerned about taking him into such an environment. I had asked to stay at home this year and have them visit. Question is, AIBU to refuse to go? Knowing it will upset my MIL to miss Christmas with the new baby.

You really need to get Adult Social Services involved. They are putting themselves in serious danger.

Sounds like they need some support for their mental health as well as for the cleaning issue. Can your husband arrange for the G.P to visit them for assessments?. My Aunt was like this she would just sit in one room all day with the fire on really high eating kit kats and throwing the wrappers on the floor. She eventually went into a nursing home.
Could they have some type of Dementia do you think? I'd be talking to your husband about this.
I think they need some type of care plan from what you say.
In the meantime no I wouldnt visit, its not fair on you or the children, no one wants to end up being really ill with food poisioning. So either they come to you or you book in a hotel near them. I wouldnt be going anywhere near the house.

"You really need to get Adult Social Services involved."

Yes, it's obviously beyond what family can help with on visits.

Maybe the local fire brigade could be a good place to start with safety advice. They are generally better perceived by people in difficulties.

I wouldn't go, and I wouldn't allow my baby to go.

Tell your DH if he feels badly, even though it is massively unreasonable for them to expect visits when their house is grossly unsanitary and unsafe, then he can visit them by himself.

They are not being unreasonable, and they clearly have MH issues if they think they are.

I do think you need to tackle this now because in no time at all your baby will be crawling, cruising and toddling and then what? This is the first time since your baby was born so that's your boundary and start as you mean to go on.

Not for a week and not for a day. How have you managed to visit before? I wouldn't have.

DH needs to tell them you won't be going and why and he also needs to talk to them about if they would like to see their GC in future as things need to change/they need help.

YANBU No way is that an environment for a new baby or for any human being or pet. You have to stay at home, it's not up for discussion.

Their family ought to be ashamed of themselves letting older people live in squalor like that, they all need to get together and pull together to get the PILs the help they need. Whether that's divvying up a cleaning and sorting rota between themselves or getting PILs the medical support they need and clubbing together to pay for professional cleaners, it has to be done.

Everything you've mentioned is a small job in itself if it's done regularly. If the PILs aren't capable of doing anything about it, then the family need to step up and step in.

I don't understand how family who live locally could not solve this problem for the PILs. The ones who live near could do the graft, the further away ones could pay for cleaning materials. It makes no sense that a whole family can collectively shrug their shoulders and accept their parents living in those beyond disgusting conditions because the PILs are too ill or infirm to clean up after themselves.

I think your DH and his siblings need to look into some help for his parents.

I wouldn't go unless you can book a hotel and meet them in cafes or go out for dinner?

I am sorry they will be upset but you can't stay there with a baby. You will need to organise a hotel or AirBnB and book a meal somewhere for Christmas lunch. Perhaps this will be the wake up call they need?

Please don't take your newborn into such an environment. You're a parent now and with that comes taking responsible decisions for their health and wellbeing. Put your child first. You wouldn't accept this from a nursery, childminder or school.

This sounds very much like the conditions my df was living in after he fell ill. He'd always been a hoarder and cleaning wasn't top priority for him but once he got ill it spiralled out of control. It wasn't just mess, it was absolute squalor. I don't know whether the same rules apply now, but unless your inlaws ask for help it's very difficult to get help for them. Maybe it is different if mental health issues are involved? My father refused all help, wouldn't let anyone into his home and ignored all letters/phone calls regarding his living conditions as he didn't want people "interfering" with his things. I did try to help clean his house, which I found to be the most horrific experience ever, but after I got pregnant I decided I couldn't do that anymore as I was scared of harming the baby by catching something (there was rotting food lying around everywhere, a bowl of thick coughed up mucus next to the bed, soiled clothes etc etc) and I refused to go there after the baby was born. Do not go to your inlaws with a newborn. Goodness knows what your baby might pick up. Your OH needs to understand that this is a very serious situation. Not only must he and his siblings pull together to help their parents, but this is not the place to take a newborn. I can't believe he'd even consider taking a newborn into such dreadful conditions.

Obscured - if it was as simple as going in there and cleaning up or organising a cleaner, I'm sure the family would have sorted this out by now.

In the case of my GPs they were willing to accept cleaning services from their female offspring only, so my DM and my DAunt would troop up once every few weeks or so on a Sunday ( it was an hours drive each way) and spend the day cleaning, whilst the relatives that took the carers allowance and inherited the property did naff all. Farming stock and first born son you see. Made me 100% certain that I'd never be cleaning my parents house for them - can barely clean their own - but if it gets to it I will support them in sourcing a cleaner.

I agree that they need to try to do something, I disagree that trying to keep someone else's house in a decent state if they are unwilling/unable to do any of it themselves is a small job.

Refuse to go. You DH is being an idiot if he thinks its ok. Health of a newborn is worth a falling out. Get your hv to explain the risks if he cant see past his blinkers.

YANBU. Do not go.

I wonder if maybe, after the dust has settled, they may be "shocked" into realising what a problem this has become. If you just give in and go to stay with them, they'll think "see, it's not that bad".

And your DH really, really needs to back you up on it as well.

You have to say 'no'. And not be guilted or bullied into it.

If your DH was told it would be fine, I am assuming that you were expecting something would be done and conditions would be in a better, but that hasn't happened. Why can't they come to you? Can't your DH collect them for a few days. It really doesn't have to be a full week. Surely the nearby relatives could feed the pets.

Maybe them returning after a few days will open their eyes to how bad it has got.

If she really can't tell them about the state of the house, he can blame you feel you can't travel with the newborn. Invite them to you. Next year it was so lovely having them to your house, can you do that again. In between, get social services involved.

I too think honesty is the best policy in the long run. Your husband needs to say you cannot visit and stay because it is not a safe environment for you or your baby.

Could one of his siblings accommodate you and host Christmas?
I agree there should be a proper assessment of capacity, so it might be wise to contact the GP who can arrange a CPN to visit.

Because they promised it would be fine, DH agreed to visit for a week and now feels as though it would be unreasonable to refuse to go.

They can promise the Sky is green, but it doesn’t make it so.

Nothing has changed, it isn’t fine, so you don’t go.

This is so delicate and I have seen a similar situation and quietly cleaned to cope as for example toilets just never were cleaned. That way I knew the bathrooms and kitchen were hygienic but it is hard.

I think it depends on your situation but in the situation I saw spending time with the people involved was very valuable and special and I felt I could quietly help, but it was down to a chaotic and happy environment rather than bigger thing like mental health or hoarding.
At the end of the day I think you have to prioritise what makes you feel safe though and be as gentle as you can if you need to ask for changes beyond any your dh or you can make quietly. Good luck

You can't be sure there isn't vermin around can you.. Nobody with any CS would take a baby into that.

Don't take baby there even for a few hours. They will be touching all the unhygienic surfaces in their house and then touching the baby. Out of the house they will not constantly be touching dirty things like they will in their home.

As they are still deemed capable of making decisions there is nothing you can do. Cleaning won't help as it doesn't solve the behavioural issues that have caused the problem. The only way they will get help is to ask for it and you can't force them.

If they had the decision to make of either staying home and not seeing their grandchild or coming to yours, what would they do?

DS is 12.5 months and has never met any of DHs family because they live in a shit hole. Literally. There is cat shit everywhere. All adults with capacity refuse to clean/prefer to get pissed up. So no chance am I going near with my newborn (last year) or an independently mobile baby who wants to touch everything and then put it in his mouth (this year) . Luckily we live four hours away and I have zero interest in visiting.

The health of your newborn is far more important than hurting their feelings. Don't take a baby into that environment.

They were offended that you bought a toilet seat???

Please don't go. Your baby's health is more important that offending them