To want to throttle GS when he won't poo in the loo???? SORRY LONG BUT NEED ADVICE

[joash]

GS is 4 and has always been a bloody nuisance with the poo side of things. When he was small he would hold onto it for days on end until he literally could not hold it anymore.
No problems whatsoever in the wee department - totally dry day and night. Can hold it when we're not near a toilet and I cannot remember the last time he had a we accident. But he will just not poo on the toilet. He still holds it until he can't hold it anymore - then goes in his pants.
He's had laxatives and some other 'stuff' from the docs to try and prevent him from holding it.
We've tried every method of encouragement, etc, and now I'm ready to kill him.
Apparently this is very common in boys - but my son wasn't like this and I only know of one other person whose son was and although I love her to bits - she was a bit OTT, so her sons behaviour did not surprise anyone at the time.
HELP - any suggestions anyone????

Can he tell you what he doesn't like about pooing on the loo?

Girls are more used to sitting on the bog, so it's less of an issue with them - boys only sit when they poo, so it seems a bit odd.

I think a lot of boys are frightened they're going to fall through, or they don't like the (tmi alert) splash, esp if they get a wet bum!

Will he use a potty - or could you lay a few sheets of loo roll on top of the water to reduce the unwanted bidet effect? Depending on the shape of your loo, you can reduce the splash if he sits facing the cistern - also he may be able to see into the bowl more that way. Or would he use a nappy? Not ideal but gets him into a regular pattern.

Good luck.

My 4 year old DS is similar to this. He will only poo in a nappy. However, this is preferable to pooing in pants. I am fortunate that he knows when he wants to go so does not soil anywhere else.

There is a condition called Encoporesis which is where children poo in an inappropriate place after the age of about 4.

Sometimes when the problem is ongoing children don't realise that they want to go (the bowel has become so distended and stretched that normal feelings of needing to poo don't register)

Your GS needs referral to a childrens constipation clinic am a nurse so know these exist) - the GP should do this as a metter of urgency.

Try not to get cross with him as this will just make the problem worse - it's already a huge issue for him and having adults around him adding to the stress will not help.

Try the ERIC website (not sure of url but is a site dedicated to continence problems in children.

bribe him with hotwheels

My 6 yr old has a problem with pooing also.She actually has a fear of it after having become constipated after a virus and then when she went finally it hurt like he**.
She will often hold it until she has an accident.I have given her medicine to soften her stools as now she causes herself to become constipated.
The best advice I can give is go into the toilet with the child and sing tell stories etc.
I have been making progress since doing this.There are bad days but in general she's improving.
My neighblours must think there is something weird going on when they here our rendition of Castle on a cloud from Les Mis blasting from our bathroom

Nope - he's not afraid of the toilet -just won't poo on it. Won't use nappy pants, nappies or potty for it becasue he insists he's not a baby. Tried spending time in the toilet with him - but if he needs to poo and he's sat on the toilet, he just screams and screams and refuses to let it go. Also tride bribery.
Doctor says there is nothing wrong with him - he just does not like the sensation of the poo coming out.

tried not tride

How can you best distract him?

Am loathe to set up another bluddy man who needs 45mins for a blinkin' crap fgs, but would he sit on the loo with a gameboy/similar Big Treat, that lives in the bathroom and he can only use whilst pooing/after a poo?

As for the screaming, if he's not in actual physical pain I think I'd be inclined to treat that as a tantrum.

Sympathy. Will have a think....

Thanks - have tried the distraction with an old tetris type game which he is obsessed with - he dropped it in the loo!!!! Just glad it wasn't the DS, which had been my original thought.

and the screaming is definately just a tantrum.

and the screaming is definately just a tantrum.

You definitely need ERIC - it's here . Your GP is being an arse (IMHO) - your GS needs referring to a constipation clinic for a general check up and for support and advice.He may not be constipated at present but I would bet my life that he has been at some point in the past - why else would he be so scared.

Generally if a child is that scared of going then there is a reason behind it - it could be something as simple as having been very constipated at one point causing pain on going that he remembers at the back of his mind. He's only 4 so cannot rationalise things in an adult way (ie - that was then and this is now).

Any specialist clinic would have staff who understand this and know the best way around it. I's not as simple as saying " he just doesn't like the sensation" - you already know that - what is the GP going to offer to help you manage the problem it has become - ask for a referral.

It's getting embarrasing. He did it at 'playworld' and becasue he had boxer shorts on - the 'offending' poo fell out of his pants and he just carried on playing until another mum told us what had happened. I know I shouldn't laugh - but it seems funny now. The staff never batted an eyelid and said he wasn't the first.

Joash - I think you should try a different GP. There are medical reasons for this which should be explored - impactation being the most likely.

Sorry for the TMI questions - but when he does poo his pants, is the poo soft squidgy like at times, or is it always large fully formed poos?

Poo leakage around impactation happens a lot - and it tends to come out as soft squidy poos. The impactation stops the child from having any sensation of needing to poo - as it desensitises the rectal muscles - and the child genuinely doesn;t know that he needs to go.

There are also emotional reasons for fecal incontinence.

Whichever it is - getting angry at him, will make it worse. I;ve been there done it and got the t-shirt (well laundry basket of pooey pants actually)!

If medical reasons are completely ruled out - then this is the approach which finally worked for me:

No fuss, completely neutral when an event happens. Clean up - nothing said etc etc. No implied punishment either - like sending him to get pants/clothes etc.

When poo is done on the toilet then have a huge very conspicious bottle of lollies, mini fun bars, choccie buttons (whatever his favs are) and in a very theatrical manner pull the prize from the jar adn tell him how wonderful/clever etc he is. Do not ever mention the sweets when there is an 'accident', and do not ever mention the 'accidents' when he gets a reward.

No medical reasons - we are on his third GP (die to the move to cornwall, etc) PLus he has consultants for his kidney check-ups (on the third of those too). All say there is no medical reason, he just refuses to do it on the loo.
His poos are always fuly formed - neither hard nor soft.

I am currently in the stage of trying the No fuss, completely neutral thing, and will try the treats thing. Need to figure out what to use though as he's not keen on sweets and choccy (i have just thrown away the remainder of his xmas stuff & god knows what I'm to do with his easter stuff).

due -not die

But what does a doctor specialising ion kidneys know about bowels?

Whilst he was having checks on his bladder to check kidney function - they did checks on his bowel to make sure there was no underlying problem about his poo issues. Even having him sat on a potty on a 'camera' screaming his head off until he pooed (took over an hour to get him to finally part with it

Even having him sat on a potty on a 'camera' screaming his head off until he pooed (took over an hour to get him to finally part with it

Sorry joash but this sounds almost abusive. I think you are right in going down the " no reaction" path as it all sounds as though it has become a massive issue for him.

I've read this thread with avid interest as I have exactly the same problem with DS1, also aged 4. Joash, you have my absolute sympathy. We've been trying the completely neutral approach for a whole year with no success - and he's only ever managed one poo on the toilet so we have never had the opportunity to reinforce the good result with a reward. As I am now struggling with a very ill husband, DS1's continued problem is something I could well live without. The advice on here (and finding out that there is such a thing as a continence clinic) has prompted me to go back to my GP and push for a referral. I'm also heading off to check out the ERIC website.

Good luck with your GS, Joash. I hope you find a solution.

I read the camera quote as an investigation into his behaviour, not a punishment/abuse.

hi joash, we joyfully had this problem with ds. In fact, there are probably a few posts in the archives with me tearing my hair out.

What worked in the end for us was taking the fear out of pooing. We got a book (think it is called Everybody Poos - will look on amazon in a minute) - it's quite basic but goes through different animals etc. and show how they all have to do it. We had several chats about how we all poo (lovely I know) and how pooing was fun and wasn't it funny how long we all spent on the loo etc. etc. I know it sounds naff but it was all working towards making going to the toilet and that whole process of 'letting go' a natural thing (because after all, he can do it, just not in the loo).

Also, they don't understand that the longer they hold on, the worse it gets so try to cram his diet full of things like grapes and raisins.

In the end, what cracked it with ds was watching a movie (is it Bugs Life or Antz, one of those) where the flies ate poo poo cakes (sigh) and this tickled ds so much that he went to the loo to do a poo so the flies had something to eat. I know that is GRIM but just not thinking about doing it seemed to do the trick.

I would try that route (the obsessive poo is fun chat) for a bit - it may not look like it's working but it's like chipping away at a big brick and you may find he slowly sees the light.

Other than that, I would ask the GP for a referral to a child therapist who is trained in this area to give you some tips on encouragement (maybe ERIC has them) but it really seems to be a common problem, especially with boys for some reason.

My ds is 5 and we also have similar issue wee is fine been dry day and nice since 2, but poo is always issue. thought we had cracked it just before christmas but now he has started pooing in pants again has done 2 on toilet in three weeks but only after started in pants and caught him. have tried treats, sending to bed, star chart. nothing seams to work 2-3 people have suggested medical problem could be cause but havent gone down that route yet!! He has just come to tell me he has pood in this pants and there is no wipes!! I too could kill him!!!

foxinsocks - that actually sounds like it would appeal to GS - will look for the book.
Also he doesn't have Bugs Life or Antz - so I'll get them and hope that inspires something in him.

Thanks WanderingTrolley , yes the camera thing was an investigation into his behaviour.

akaJamiesMum - The screaming is simply because he wanted to poo in his pants as opposed to anywhere else, it is not abusive. He was quite happy to wee for them and found it amusing to watch his bladder emptying on the screen - so much that he demanded another dringk to do it again.

mummydoit you also have my sympathy. Although I have looked at the ERIC website and to be honest - there's nothing thats really useful for poo issues.

hi frankielamb. we have also tried everything treats, sending to bed, star charts, being nice, being neutral, getting angry, etc - even promising him a bloody kitten (which he is desperate for) if he does all his poos on the toilet for a whole week.
And I've also just had the same thing as you, whcih prompted me to start this thread - he came to tell me he had pood in his pants and we have no wipes either!!
I totally understand your frustration.
Although, knowing that he's not the only one, does make me feel a little better.

Might be counter-productive, but here's another poo book.

Read reviews.