to be thinking about starting an anti-Operation Christmas Child campaign in April?

[ahundredtimes]

Am I mad? I'm now convinced that right wing american christian fundamentalists are taking the shoe boxes and distributing with christian literature. Have researched the web. I know it's April, but hey, Hilary Clinton has started her campaign already.

Why would you want to stop something that does so much good?

Your not so much unreasonable as spiteful and sad tbh

there are lots of organizations that do this now, and they aren't all as you described. I disagree with including any info in the box ( some do this) but I think on the whole, does more good than harm. Are any children really going to have a look at the literature and this, oh wow, I'd like to be a Christiam (or whatever?) It's probably just discarded with the wrapping paper

Children are more interested in what's in the box, toys, toothbrush, sweets etc. to worry if they are going to go to hell for not having religion or not.
I am a Christian but I do not try to convert nor expect everyone to have the same belief as me.
However if spending a few pounds to put a few things in a shoe box can bring joy and happiness to a child living in very bad conditions then I do it with pride.

If they don't kneel to the same god as I do so what.
If they get a pamphlet that tells them about Christ it's not going to kill them is it!

In that case can't they just have the boxes without the leaflets?

I have been contributing to these kinds of charities for about 12 years now. I am not a believer, but have no problem if some of them want to include a bible or a christian leaflet in the box. Some people find great comfort and strength in their faith - and lets face it, these people need it.
Your comments are pathetic and reveal you to be no beter then the "christian fundamentalists" you purport to dislke so mcuh
If you disagree with a particular charities actions, then just give to a different one ffs.

Anyway, "researching the web" , as everyone knows, is no substitute for having first-hand experience of what's going on. Christians of any denomination actually have a duty to inform others- it is then left up to these others what they do with the information.

I think you would do better placing your energies into supporting an alternative evangelism-free initiative.

RE the ethics of operation Christmas child - it often isn't just a leaflet - it's 'come to this service and receive...' and one box of goodies that will be used up within a week isn't a sustainable improvement, is it, whether it comes with evangeism or a missionary effort, or not? Especially given the transport costs.

Personally, I will continue to support sustainable, deep-rooted aid initiatives, and encourage DS to see the benefits of that.

Put your energies into something else.

Something you believe in.

And don't believe everything you read.

kimi

well I think it is good that you have started thinknig about this. We used to do the shoe boxes but had to stop due to the religious aspect. Also I wanted to do this at the preschool when I was chair and we could not due to it being from a religious organisation.

I say that from your original post this is something you feel strongly about and it is a wonderful way to channel your efforts. Wy no start early?

Go for it - you are not the only one who feels like this - but I am guessing one of the more proactive variaty.

I both understand and admire.

Are you sure that the children who receive the boxes can even read the leaflets or would be interested in reading them if there's sweets, toys and warm clothing in them?

Its all about personal choice, I choose to give to this the same way as I choose to deliver and collect the Christian aid envelopes and send DS1 to a Church School (secondary).
I do not however expect everyone to do the same as me.

I do not mind if a child does not read the pamphlet, but maybe they might and they might like what they read.

Also it may only last a week but it brings joy along side longer running programmes, a child should have a basic right to clean water, a home that's safe, food, to be able to go out without being caught in crossfire and an education but sadly in todays world this is not happening.
If a toothbrush some soap and some colouring books can bring just a little joy to a child even for one hour of one day then so be it and long may it continue

why on earth "spiteful and sad" kimi?. i would rather say it reveals ahundredtimes to be thinking and desirous of making sure any charitable donations she might make have the maximum impact in a way that accords with her non-evangelical principles. I have no idea if there is a right-wing fundamentalist/evangelical connection in this particular case but I think those that brush off the possibility as not having negative effects are naive.

i do as blu does; i supprt initiatives i wholeheartedly believe in.

know where youre coming from tho - im quite suspicious of all religious organisations tbh, founded or otherwise.

speading awareness that charities are not always what they appear amy be a good thing, but i wonder if it might turn people off donating at all? better to promote good'uns than highlight the bad. imo.

a100times
Search this on MN - you will come up with threads on this from last autumn/Christmas.
You will find concern about the motives of this charity there. Nothing sad or spiteful about trying to protect innocent children in desparate circumstances from those who give hope tied to their fundamentalest views.
There is a place for anyone to preach their views, in my view it is not together with hand-outs to the poor.

Hmmm. I'd be happier if Operation CC were more upfront about their evangalism tbh. They say they don't put the literature in the boxes, but they do put them beside them. They are linked with Samaritans Purse, a v. right wing evangelical organization in the states run by the son of Billy Graham, and he is one of Bush's men. He's been on CBC saying that Hindu's are in the grip of satan etc etc. I can't endorse this kind of rubbish! It's not christian charity as I understand it!!
Does it matter who they are if 'they bring happiness to children'? Well yes it does, I think. This is a bad example, but I'm going to use it anyway - how if this was MN circa 1938 in Berlin, and I wrote a post saying 'Does it matter if Heinz goes to the these Youth Camp meetings? He likes it. He sees his friends. They're only going because they like the uniform and the songs'.
Ok diving for cover now. A provocative analogy, but you get my meaning. . .
Operation CC should be more transparant about their roots and their philosophy. You can't ask schools of mixed religion to endorse this kind rampant right wing evangelising. We should go in to our schools and talk loudly about Water Aid and secular charities like Twenty First Century Child.

err may be missing the point but

operation "christmas" child

is christmas not a christian festival!?!?!?!

maybe a simplistci way of looking at it but no one can make these children believe anything just by them going to a service or looking at a leaflet

Don't think you're being simplistic, think you're being very sensible! But, still got my knickers in a twist over THE PRINCIPLE of the thing. Yes, a christian festival, yes, a christian principle to support charity BUT is this a 'good and christian' chairty? Probe, poke, probe, probe.

As an aside, Christian Aid support Water Aid etc as well.

I haven't got anything against christians. I've got something against right wing evangelical american christians though (quite a lot as it happens). So, Water Aid is fine! Lucky Water Aid.

Personally I would prefer to give without the literature. There are so many charities giving without trying to convert anyone to any particular religion and they still bring as much happiness to the people who need it.
A large majority of the people who are being given the Christmas Child boxes are non Christian and I have to say I do have a problem with trying to steer people away from their own religion with gifts. Why else would they give with the literature if not for that reason? I give school supplies and sponsor communities and would rather steer clear of missionary charities.

Barefoot - thanks for your message. Am going off to search now.

emat - I agree with you. What annoys me is that they don't advertise their evangelical agenda. You just get the leaflet from school. Though now perhaps more people, like me, are starting to look into Samaritans Purse etc, and then at least we can start to make informed decisions on supporting Franklin Graham etc.

Ahundred times- I know this is picking up an old thread- I'm new to mumsnet. We're seething about the evangelical samaritans purse shoe boxes. Both my kids schools are doing them and I think it's completely wrong to combine evangelical literature with handing out gifts. We contacted samaritans purse, and found out about BG's son- some of the things he's said about Muslims are an eyeopener.

YABU.

By all means start up a charity that distributes shoe boxes according to your own ideas, but don't bash those that already do.

YANBU

I think these Samaritan Purse people are very clever. They want to spread their evangelical word, and what better way than to target vulnerable, desperate children.
So they disguise the whole thing as a Christmas gift giving exercise, and make us believe we are sending Christmas gifts to poor children.
Thereby cleverly getting us to pay for spreading their word!
(and yes, the children are getting a box of goodies, that is the bait, isn't it)

No, it is wrong wrong wrong, and I am looking into non-religious alternatives. Sponsoring a child is highest on my list of 'things I think may make a difference]