To ignore the TV license people?

[Fellia]

So the TV licensing people knocked on my door at half 8 on Saturday morning.

I was in bed and didn’t answer but I’m expecting them to come back.

They put a red letter through my door saying I am watching tv illegally and they can “help me watch legally.”

I’m finding this absolutely ridiculous. I do not watch tv apart from Netflix/DVD’s and the one tv I do have isn’t connected to actual channels (sorry, I don’t know how to explain this properly as I don’t know much about it)

But the fact is I do not watch regular TV. I have written to them, called them numerous times to explain this and I had a visit last year (at a different property) where I also explained this.

AIBU to just ignore them if they keep coming to my door? I’m sick of being harassed by them for no reason.

If all you could watch was European, Asian or USA TV you would be falling over yourselves to pay the BBC licence. Seriously.

At least Netflix exists now (thankful for small mercies).

We recently bought a flat which had been empty since the previous owner died about a year before. When we got there, there was a pile of letters addressed to ‘The Occupier’, consisting of three separate sequences building up from ‘Do you need a TV licence?’ through ‘we will be starting an investigation if you don’t reply by x date’ to ‘we will be visiting you’. Presumably they then visited, someone told them the flat was empty so they went away, only to start again.

When we moved in, as the flat is only being used for DH to live in during the week while at work, we decided not to bother with TV, and he made a declaration online.

Apparently the declaration is valid for 2 years, we got an email giving a declaration reference number and saying

“You have declared that no one at your address watches or records live TV programmes on any channel or device, or downloads or watches BBC programmes on demand, including catch up TV, on BBC iPlayer.

What you need to know:

1 We may visit you to confirm that a licence isn't needed. We do this because when we make contact, we find almost one in six people who say they don't need a licence actually do need one.

2 You won’t receive any letters or emails from us until just before your declaration expires in September 2019.

3 On rare occasions, we may contact you sooner if we believe your circumstances have changed.”

As we do have a licence at our main home, I believe that DH could in fact watch iPlayer on a portable device such as his iPad, as long as it wasn’t plugged in. He doesn’t, though, as the only live TV he is actually interested in is Doctor Who, which is on a Saturday, when he’s at home

@neverender please could you point to where on any official website it says you need a TV licence if you own a device capable of receiving a signal?

The secret IME is to actually properly ignore them. If you tell them you're not watching TV you're engaging with them, not ignoring them.

If they ever actually turn up on my door I'll be happy to tell them we don't watch telly any more (as we don't!).

But speaking to them is just encouraging them to hassle you IMO!

@ neverender
Is there an actual occupation of "telly detuner"?
I'm interested in re training.

Give TV Licensing a call and tell them you have a TV the can receive a live TV signal BUT that you don't actually watch it. You'll be in court before you know it Needs.

It reminds me of the time someone said they didn't 'watch' the TV, they just had it on in the background for their parrot. Hmm, okaaaaay.

And look it up yourself - I know the law inside and out thanks.

The CAB will tell you to get rid of your TV if you can't afford a licence and watch it.

All I can tell you if IF your TV can receive a signal and IF you let the man in and he checks, you'll get a fine.

And anyone with any sense will insist that they prove that you’ve been watching live tv. Having the capacity to do something does not mean that you are actually doing it. I have the capacity to watch I player. The app came preinstalled on my smart tv. However, I do not watch I player so I do not need a tv license.

The tv licensing website is very clear indeed that it’s watching it recording live tv programmes or using i player for tv that requires a license. Nothing about the capacity to receive a signal.

You need to be covered by a TV Licence to watch or record live TV programmes on any channel download or watch any BBC programmes on iPlayer – live, catch up or on demand.
This applies to any provider you use and any device, including a TV, desktop computer, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, games console, digital box or DVD/VHS recorder.

I know MN can struggle with 'geeky stuff' (think how many don't realise airport restrictions aren't just liquids) but this really isn't hard to understand:

www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one

sorry, cross-post!

you've all got google. Look it up.

Goodness me, I’ve discovered the dark and mystical secrets of those dreaded ‘detector’ vans!

Dear British Broadcasting Corporation,

The text of a sworn oath of a BBC application for a search warrant has entered the public domain. An excerpt of the text of that statement relevant to this FOI request is reproduced below.

“5. A television display generates light at specific frequencies. Some of that light escapes through windows usually after being reflected from one or more walls in the room in which the television is situated. The optical detector in the detector van uses a large lens to collect that light and focus it on to an especially sensitive device, which converts fluctuating light signals into electrical signals, which can be electronically analysed. If a receiver is being used to watch broadcast programmes then a positive reading is returned. The device gives a confidence factor in percentage terms, which is determined by the strength of the signal received by the detection equipment and confirms whether or not the source of the signal is a “possible broadcast“

So, they look at your windows! And the percentage of accuracy of these vans means any ‘proof’ gathered is useless as evidence anyway 😂
What a pathetic company.

When I was a young single mother in Dublin I didn't want a TV, but people were so warm-hearted and convinced that I didn't have a TV out of poverty they would bring me TVs. So we ended up watching maybe one programme a month. That is the trouble with the TV license fee. I was breaking the law with that one programme a month, but if I'd paid the license I would have been paying over 5 pounds a view.

Yep official site is very clear

"You don’t need a TV Licence if you:
never watch or record programmes on any channel as they’re being shown on TV or live on an online TV service, and
never download or watch BBC programmes on iPlayer – live, catch up or on demand.
This could be on any device, including a TV, desktop computer, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, games console, digital box or DVD/VHS recorder."

In this day and age people have numerous devices on which they COULD watch live tv/iplayer which cannot be "detuned" (when were you trained the 80's???) doesn't mean they ARE and even though these bullies may THINK the law doesn't apply to them it does - they have to PROVE a person is guilty it is not for the accused to prove their innocence.

@Neverender I have looked it up myself thanks - I think the website is quite clear that you need a licence if you watch TV, not if you own something that is capable of receiving a signal.

They could try and take me to court, but they'd fail, because they'd have no evidence that I was breaking the law.
FFS even ringing the police and telling them you've murdered someone won't get you convicted if there's no evidence that someone died.

I’m willing to bet that never won’t actually come up with anything more than vague threats about the vans, mysterious hand waving and serious looks about them ‘knowing’ stuff. The day the bbc are open and honest will be a cold day in hell.

Of course not. That's because there is nothing more to it.

People who are convicted of licence evasion are generally people that admit it to the inspectors.

Could never be a bbc bot? Sent to spread fear and misinformation?

Absolutely not, I left 8yrs ago. Someone asked a question and I answered it. This is something I happen to know about. I've been to court when people have been fined. It's not fictional.

If you don't like it, then you don't like it, but if you let them in and you have a TV plugged in which can receive live TV you'll be fined. It's not difficult to understand and I'm not sure why everyone is getting angry about it. If you said you'd committed murder and there was a body in your house it'd be the same - to use the weird analogy someone's suggested. This is a very strange discussion.

I've given advice on how to stop them knocking on your door. I'm not on 'their' side particularly and if you don't like what I've written then ignore it and go about your day. I was helping the OP.

This is all you need OP

tv-licensing.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/woira-dodging-tv-licensing-man.html?m=1

So, have any of these fines and/or convictions come about from evidence gained by a ‘detector van’? The bbc refuse to answer questions on this in the freedom of information requests. You said the the vans were real, but, they are only real in the sense that my car is real, and if I call myself a ‘tv detector’ who looks at windows, then, I’m driving a tv detector van.

@neverender I'm starting to think youre just trolling since it actually says on that link you posted "This TV Licensing man gives the distinct impression that a licence is needed just to own a TV, which we all know is complete and utter tosh."

Yes the vans have been successful in providing evidence - why else would they exist?

Believe whatever you want to. If you have the spare time and energy then feel free to call TV Licensing and ask them yourself. I don't need to. Google TV Licensing and WOIRA for an understanding of what I'm suggesting the OP does. The link is to an article criticising the field officer. I'm not sure why I'd post that if I was pro TV Licensing! Deary me, this is getting bitchy and dull.

Ah, providing evidence. From the driver, or from the machines? Why can’t we get actual information on the vans if their equipment is viable?

I suspect neverender is getting a bashing for the sin of pointing out that, no matter what the word of the law is, you are likely to find it hard to refute the claim that you need a license if your telly is connected / could receive live broadcasts.

That, I think, is it, in a nutshell... word of law versus real life experience!

And, just for the sake of clarity, I have often not had a telly, always filled out the form and never had any issues at all. No big burly bully boy, no threatening letters.

It's exempt under the rules of FOI as it forms part of the rules around 'prevention and detection of crime.'