To think Father Christmas is yet another bloody sexist concept

[chocdog]

Just been spending loads of time and effort on the school Christmas fair. Every single person involved since September doing all the hard work and very complex organisation has been female. Then on the day, two dads rock up to do the fun stuff - being Father Christmas. They are the stars of the show getting the glory and enjoying jolly bantz with the kids and massive thanks from the adults.

Why do we go along with this?

All the religions work like this too (as shown by the thread on religions that's running at the moment). We can't change the religions but couldn't we have a Mother Christmas alternative to Father Christmas? Not as his bloody helpmate but as a proper standalone alternative. AIBU?

I think you need to educate yourself on who "Santa" "Father Christmas" is based on...

I will give you a clue... Saint Nicholas

GIYF!

I’m an Elf tomorrow. That’s the BEST job ‘cos I get the clipboard that has the naughty and nice list on it.

Everyone knows that Haud. Have you read the thread??

Also fuck being Santa, it’s hot in the grotto in that suit and your back aches after the first hour.

Father Christmas is a bit grim anyway. A random hairy fat man, sneaking into your house in the middle of the night, and emptying his sack over the end of your bed while you sleep....

Oh for goodness sake. Bore off.

If you're so against looking at, analysing or even (gasp) challenging cultural norms, LadyG, and you (presumably) don't believe in sexism or patriarchy, it sort of begs the question why don't you bore off instead of clicking on a thread to which you have nothing to contribute?

He’s also able-bodied and straight so he’s a sexist, racist, homophobic and disablist construct!

And he's cis 😉

OP I don't know why you are choosing to blame this on poor santa! It isn't his fault if no men choose to be involved on the PTA.....

Another thing to consider..... I personally would never thank the PTA for putting on the xmas fair. Ours is crap and a complete rip off however the kids know it is on so expect to go. I was on the PTA for a few years and never expected parents to thank me for organising stuff. I was doing it to raise money for the school, that was all! However when Santa hands the children a gift - I of course always expect them to say thank you.

Popcorn here too?

Are we really going to attack anything with a male figure attached to it. Father Christmas has always been portrayed as a man. Saint Nick was a man.

The issue is the imbalance of mother staying at home with children to fathers. And thus being more available for volunteering at the school.

You seem to be suggesting that there has been no imbalance, and the only thing holding back women is women's own inadequacies! As I said, this is pretty basic stuff. I'm saying let's empower our daughters, granddaughters, nieces etc. Let's tell them that they are fortunate to have been born in a time and country where they have rights that previous generations could only dream of and yet women still achieved despite the odds, how much easier is it for them? I don't want my granddaughters to grow up thinking they have no chance in life, I want them to go out there and conquer the world and I want my grandsons to understand that too. If anyone tells them they can't be a scientist I want them to know that a woman won two nobel prizes for science before their great grandmother was born so there is nothing to stop them, if anyone tells them women can't run things I want them to know that the greatest monarchs this country has had were women, that two women have been Prime Minister (even if I don't like them) and they can run anything they want to.

I don't want them to waste a second worrying about Father Christmas being a man but I do want them to look at teenage girls being glamorous elves and think there are better things to do.

Maybe I am just a glass half full person.

granny well I don't disagree with any of that- I promote female role models to my daughters whenever I can. I draw their attention to sexist bullshit and encourage them to challenge stereotypes. My husband does likewise.

None of that removes the fact that our culture is based on patriarchal ideas, and there are still battles to be fought. Do you disagree? Being positive or negative about the sexism we still face has no effect on the history that brought us to this point.

Anyway, it seems a whole host of patriarchy-deniers have joined the thread, and I haven't got time to explain sexism ro them from the very beginning, so I'll just say this: the OP has a point, though I suspect she was being a little tongue in cheek. Whatever your individual circumstances, women have always fone the bulk of unpaid labour for family life, and men have, by and large, had starring roles i public life. The Christmas fair OP describes is a little microcism of this - surely that's fairly obvious? I don't think she's seriously suggesting we ditch Santa... but, equally, I can't believe people are suggesting it's just a neutral fact that Father Christmas is male, as if a huge and massively feted benefactor had an equal chance of being female!

Where do the men get most of the credit? My kids know exactly who organises Christmas. So do all the kids at school. Rocking up as Santa doesn’t equal taking the credit, it’s just one job out of many.

TheGoldenBowl, I guess the difference can be where do we start from, do we start by looking at the positive and the possibilities or do we start from historical negatives and the things we may never do.

I know in my working life things have changed, when I was young the idea that the majority of women in my family out earn the men would have been so unbelievable as to be a joke and yet here we are. Not all women have the chance, some women have the chance and don't take it but I have always focused on moving forward not looking back.

The Christmas Fair the OP describes is one example, equally there are Christmas Fairs where men do just as much as the women, although they do usually bag the Father Christmas role. However, Russia has Baboushka as someone else mentioned there is also Christkind which I think is a German tradition and often played by a girl (might be always but I don't know,) Or Santa Lucia in Italy?

Maybe the non English speaking world has a more balanced view.

Long may we continue to feed a positive message to the girls in our lives. As an aside my husband decided he no longer wanted to be a Catholic when our daughter was born, he felt if they didn't want her to be Pope he didn't want to be a member. Maybe I am blessed with the men in my life.

That is proper victim mentality. Which you cab chose if it suits your purposes, but it's really really dull.

Oh dear 😣

@TheGoldenBowl hmmmm wow. Judgy much. Just coz I'm not prepared to jump on the feminism card. It happens that I believe it's ok for Santa/FC to be male. It doesn't threaten or bother me. It's part of 'my' tradition. Yes I buy all the gifts. Yes I sort out basically everything, and yes, I recognise that for many families us ladies do more than the lions share. But, I don't want FC/Santa to be a woman. He's a man. And he fact that my kids look up to him, think of him as male and love him does not in any way threaten me or the fact that it's me, a woman who maintains the guise.