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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if this is cruel

64 replies

RumblyGrumbleNoise · 11/12/2017 12:16

Sorry for posting here! Posted in Fishnet (who knew it existed? ) but not getting any replies and want to sort asap if I'm right in thinking this is cruel.

I've just seen these two fish in a tank which to me (complete novice to fish/pets) looks far too small and cruel.
I've had a quick Google and it seems to suggest sizes in gallons and I'm a bit clueless.
Can anyone advise as I really would like to approach owners if it is too small.
Thanks

To ask if this is cruel
OP posts:
Frogletmamma · 11/12/2017 12:54

Poor little fish! My fish are tiny and have tank 20X size

RumblyGrumbleNoise · 11/12/2017 12:55

ForTheLoveOfSleep
Yes it is. Don't worry I had permission on this occasion as was there to see concert. All parents agreed we wanted to film on our own phones.
I've emailed manager and got a meeting later to discuss.

OP posts:
brasty · 11/12/2017 12:57

I read that fish like this should grow much bigger, but they won't if kept in too small a space. Very cruel.
I read research into animals kept in nurseries and primary schools, and they have a lower life expectancy on average, as far too many are not kept properly.

TooSoonForChristmas · 11/12/2017 12:58

far too small - it is good you are raising it

NoSquirrels · 11/12/2017 13:00

Well done for raising. If there’s a parent group could you ask for donations to a larger tank? Or ask on Freegle/FB etc?

FindoGask · 11/12/2017 13:00

Two goldfish need something crazy like a 70 litre tank, no joke. That looks about 5 litres.

RumblyGrumbleNoise · 11/12/2017 13:03

It's a very small nursery and looking online and some if your replies I think they would not have the space to keep them. When I meet later I will ask what will happen if they do decide to re-home.

OP posts:
RumblyGrumbleNoise · 11/12/2017 13:04

I mean for the size of tank required. The wouldn't have the space in nursery to house a tank that big.

OP posts:
Missingstreetlife · 11/12/2017 13:04

The surface area also important as that's where oxygen is absorbed. This bowl is full at narrowest point so getting no air and looks like there is a lid too.

PinkHeart5914 · 11/12/2017 13:08

Far too small, poor fish Sad

pinkmagic1 · 11/12/2017 13:11

That is very cruel. They need a much bigger tank or even better a pond.
I have tropical fish rather than goldfish but have heard that goldfish need massive tanks and really good filtration as they produce a lot of waste.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 11/12/2017 13:19

That bowl is not only too small for them to swim comfortably, but the surface area is FAR too small for enough oxygen to dissolve in the water. They will suffocate - it will be a long and horrible process. TBH, I'm surprised that they aren't already at the top gasping for air. Thos bubble aerators put very little oxygen into the water as the bubbles move too quickly.

YolandasFridge · 11/12/2017 13:23

That's a 15 litre biorb tank

senzaparole03 · 11/12/2017 13:24

I have 2 goldfish, and the guidelines are for them to be in a 30-litre tank with a filtration system and appropriate media (stones/pebbles) etc.

If I wanted to have anything in addition to 2 goldfish, say Guppies, then I would need a larger tank.

ChaChaChaCh4nges · 11/12/2017 13:25

I have one of those tanks. I agree it’s too small for the fish.

But, to be fair to the nursery, the filtration system is hidden beneath the stone tower, as is the aeration system. And it’s clearly got the gravel that comes as recommended with the tank - the manufacturer states explicitly only to use that gravel (it’s a sort of lava-y volcanic rock) and no other orbit messes with the filtration. And I don’t think it’s filthy, either. The curve of the glass makes background colours far more pronounced, and it’s against a green wall.

festivedinosaur · 11/12/2017 13:34

its 30ltr biorb. Some might say thats big enough for 1 goldfish, others will say none.

It does have a filtration system and gravel below.

The water is over filled as there is not enough surface water for oxygen exchange.

Biorbs were made by a company who believe their filtration system is powerful enough to keep it suitable for goldfish habitat.

The responses you would get at Fishnet would be that the fish need minimum of 45ltrs each and a rectangle tank rather than a bowl shape.
They will probably also say that the goldfish in that bowl aren't much of a fancy variety and would actually do far better in a pond than in a tank at all.

The problem is, sometimes these fish get kept in these conditions and get used to it, and when someone does swap them into a more fish friendly environment, they can die from the shock.

Another problem is that if people are keeping fish this way, they probably dont know anything about cycles, and nitrate and ammonia so its not just the habitat that will be bad, but probably the way they are cleaned.

We had 2 fancy goldfish, for 2 years they were kept clean and happy (by me).

One day when I was recovering from my c section I asked DP to clean the goldfish. I didnt think I needed to explain to him how to do it, as he had seen me do it many times before, and he had kept goldfish before.

Turns out he removed the fish, stripped the tank, cleaned the gravel and everything in it and popped them back into fresh water.

It looked lovely and sparkling clean. But the fish were showing signs of shock within an hour and as much as I tried to rescue, there was no saving one of them.

Aridane · 11/12/2017 13:37

I hope you paid for your spa visit, Sanshin Grin

Namechangetempissue · 11/12/2017 13:38

Yes dreadful! I've got a 57l with 5 molly...

RhiannonOHara · 11/12/2017 13:42

YANBU; it's quite poky. Not enough surface area to the water, either.

DownTheChimney · 11/12/2017 13:47

Well done for doing something about it Rumbly, poor things Sad

senzaparole03 · 11/12/2017 14:55

@festivedinosaur - that pic is the 15 litre bioorb, not the 30 litre.

Smarmydrippings · 11/12/2017 15:46

This has made me really sad.

CornflakeHomunculus · 11/12/2017 15:59

You might find the It's Not Just a Fish site useful, lots of good information on there including this page specifically covering goldfish and their tank requirements.

missbattenburg · 11/12/2017 16:05

Experienced goldfish keeper here and I can guarantee that biorb is killing those fish.

The filtration in a biorb is in no way up to task of handling all the nitrogen a goldfish puts out. It works a bit like this...

  1. Goldfish give out loads of ammonia
  2. Ammonia is toxic to fish
  3. Bacteria in the tank and filter convert the ammonia to nitrate (via a two step process)
  4. Nitrate is much less toxic but still levels need to be kept down
  5. Nitrate levels are kept low through regular water changes

Unless a filter is turning over around 10x the water in the tank every hour the ammonia in the water is not being exposed to the bacteria in the filter often enough to be converted.

Unless it is a BIG filter with a lot of media in it, there is not the surface area for the bacteria to grow in sufficient numbers to handle all the ammonia goldfish give out.

The biorb makers know this. It is very easy to test and prove. They do not care.

In theory, you could keep a goldfish alive in a tank this size as long as it was connected to a massive external filter. However, the filter would be so big that it would cause so much turbulence in the little tank water would all end up over the floor!

Goldfish also like to move - swimming back and forth keeps them fit and healthy. They are nosey and inquisitive and love space to explore.

Finally, they need a large surface area to allow CO2 to dissipate and oxygen to be absorbed by the water. They are not getting that with this 'tank'.

A healthy, happy goldfish 'dances' in the water - coming up happily to greet you and skip about in front of you. They are always on the move (except for over night when they slow down to rest), they are bright eyed and all their fins have neat and tidy edges. There is no cloudiness to the water.

These two fish are comet goldfish. They are best suited to ponds but if kept in a tank need something around 200 litres or more - preferably much more. They also need a large, external filter to handle all their waste. Kept like that they will live for 20 years plus (record is around 40 years).

Kept like this they will be lucky to last 1 year. Actually, if they were lucky they would die much sooner because to stay alive will be torture for them.

jellypi3 · 11/12/2017 16:12

Poor fish. Like the previous poster said they need a really big tank, 150+ litres. Goldfish produce so much waste and love to swim, they really aren't suited to aquarium life imo. I hate that these tanks are sold with these fish in mind.