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AIBU?

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Original poster

about ex's demand

59 replies

bibliomania · 11/12/2017 10:45

DD was with him for contact at the weekend and he has got her all excited about this overnight event in January in a city that's 2 hours from where we all live. He's in that city for something different on the Friday, so instead of coming back here on Saturday morning for the usual handover, he's told her that I can take her by train to that other city on Friday night so he'll then take her to the event.

This, he informs me by email, will be at my own expense as he can't afford to pay the train fare (over £80). It comes from a man who, under duress, is paying me £30 per month child maintenance when the CMS calculation is that he should be paying £350 per month (I'm following up separately with them. He works short contracts so by the time they catch up with his earnings, he's finished his contract and back on benefits, so it ends up being a backlog of payments that I never get).

What's really getting to me is that DD(10) is feeling torn between us - she really wants to go and I'm the bad guy for being too mean to pay, and she totally believes his line that it's unfair for him to pay child maintenance because he'd have her more often but I'm cruelly refusing. (Contact was reduced by court on the basis of concerns about him acting in an emotionally abusive way to her).

I'm unreasonable to be indignant about this because it's who he is and he won't change now. I need to rant here so I can appear unperturbed in my communications to him.

Oh, the event is free, by the way. It's not like he's forking out a huge amount for DD's benefit and the train fare would be a fair contribution from me.

OP posts:
Original poster
bibliomania · 11/12/2017 11:41

If there is a Court order restricting contact because of his behaviour then she is old enough to be aware on some level

She is - but she feels guilty because stuff she said to me and to school (and then to social workers) about contact is what led to contact time being reduced. What this is really about is her feelings of FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) and helping her to manage that. It's so much easier for her to blame me because there aren't all those complicated feelings attached to our relationship.

OP posts:
Original poster
bibliomania · 11/12/2017 11:43

Could you organise another event for you and dd on the same weekend?

She's part of a school choir that's involved in a big event, also in a different city, a few days later, so I'll see if I can switch the focus to being ready for that.

OP posts:
JayoftheRed · 11/12/2017 11:54

"I'm really sorry DD, but I just can't afford the train fare. Your dad is supposed to pay me £350 a month towards looking after you, but unfortunately he hasn't been paying me the right amount for the last few months. I don't mind usually, because I love you, and I don't need his money for the day-to-day stuff, but this is a lot of money and I simply don't have it. I really wish I did so I could let you go, but I simply can't.

If you desperately want to go, we could look at cutting some other things to find the money for the train, but you don't really want to have to miss drama/dance/calligraphy (delete as applicable!) do you? Perhaps you could talk to your dad about it and say that we really can't afford the train, but as he's got a good contract at the moment, perhaps he could pay for it? It is his idea, after all.

I really hope he can afford it, perhaps you could suggest he pays for the train as a late birthday/Christmas present, that would be a nice thing wouldn't it? A real treat!

If he says no, then I don't know what we're going to do sweetheart as I simply don't have that kind of money to pay for it, I really wish I did."

AdaColeman · 11/12/2017 11:54

Just as he can say that he isn’t able to pay, so can you.

He is doing this to yank your chain, and to make what should be his responsibility ie paying the cost of contact, into a way of emotionally blackmailing you.

It is his problem, his contact time, don’t pick up his monkey!

A ten year old should be able to understand that money is finite, and that some wishes are just not possible. I wouldn’t encourage the use of her birthday money, as that still leaves you with the impracticality of the journey.

Just say you can’t afford it.

Viviennemary · 11/12/2017 11:55

This is very wrong. But in your position and in those particular circumstances I think I'd pay the money if your DD wants to go. Because the only person losing out here is your DD. (and of course you'll be £80 worse off) I know that's going against what other people are saying. But it's up to you in the end.

Buck3t · 11/12/2017 12:39

The truth. My 9 year old can handle it. So can your 10 year old. She knows the truth in her heart of hearts and in the long run will respect you for it. She may act out, but shielding her is not good for her.

I love my DH now, but let's say it all goes pear-shaped, as long as we are co-parenting honestly we're good, if he starts to dick the kids around, he doesn't get the benefits of being the good guy when he's not. I'm sorry I'm not helping to facilitate his dickedness. I personally don't think you should either. Of course it's up to you, but why should you be full of grace all the time, when it puts you out of pocket, all the time. A man that refuses to pay for their own child is no man I would want in my child's life.

FizzyGreenWater · 11/12/2017 13:19

There is a point where 'bad mouthing' becomes starting to talk honestly about the situation rather than failing to give your child the tools to deal with their father by 'protecting' them.

He's manipulating her and you need to start to fight that, both for her and WITH her. It's shit, but if you don't, she increasingly becomes a lamb to the slaughter.

Original poster
bibliomania · 11/12/2017 13:46

Thanks for the input. I've just had another conversation with CMS about chasing him for the maintenance, so at least that's in hand.

So glad I'm not still married to him. Divorce and having my own salary is a wonderful thing!

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pallisers · 11/12/2017 14:33

There is a point where 'bad mouthing' becomes starting to talk honestly about the situation rather than failing to give your child the tools to deal with their father by 'protecting' them.

I really agree with this. Her relationship with her father has the potential to be the template for how she sees relationships with men (the older I get, the more convinced I am of this) so it is important that she is made aware of the bits that are not acceptable. I think it is ok to be clear what is the truth without being personally offensive about your ex. As in "dad likes to blame me for stuff but the truth is ..." or "your dad doesn't pay what he should but you don't need to worry about that". or even "it would be nice if dad remembered your birthday"

AngelsSins · 11/12/2017 14:37

Tell him to fuck off! Unbelievable, manipulative and nasty of him, what a pathetic excuse for a father. I'd honestly laugh in his face and tell him to stop manipulating his daughter for his own amusement.

Sit down with DD and explain the situation to her, that he is responsible for his time with her, and you can't afford to subsidise him anymore than you already do. I think at 10 she can hear some truth about the situation, rather than just his "poor me" one sided crap.

Original poster
bibliomania · 11/12/2017 14:55

Thanks pallisers and Angels. I did tell dd I thought he should have done something for her birthday.

I am concerned about her father being a template for future relationships. That's probably the underlying fear for me in all this.

OP posts:
TroelsLovesSquinkies · 11/12/2017 15:24

I am concerned about her father being a template for future relationships
This one of the reasons why she needs to see and hear you not letting him treat you both badly.
He blew off her birthday and she needs to know that this is not OK, he tries to make the trip to the city about you not paying for it, and this too is not OK. She needs to learn what is and isn't appropriate sadly.

itsbetterthanabox · 11/12/2017 15:29

Could the 2 of you go to the event? Not him.
He can see her another time.

stitchglitched · 11/12/2017 15:33

My DC know that January is a lean month due to Christmas and birthdays in December. I would just explain to your DD that it is too much for you to pay out so soon after xmas and if her Dad is able to collect her then of course she can go, otherwise she'll have to give this event a miss. He sounds like an absolute arse.

CocaColaTruck · 11/12/2017 15:37

Tell her he can afford to pay but chooses not to. And you can't afford to. Time she knew the truth about the prick.

RandomMess · 11/12/2017 15:42

I think you need to be more age appropriate with your DD about her father.

Perhaps ask her why she thinks he's invited her to it but refuses to pay for the train ticket when he knows you can't afford it and he is supposed to pick her up for contact?? I don't mean in a harsh way btw!

I think it's ok for you to tell DD that you feel as though he's invited her knowing you won't be able to make it happen so he can pretend to DD that it's your fault. You need to gently lead her out of the FOG without bad mouthing him.

You can still reassure her that you know she will always love him and that is ok with you but you don't have to like his behaviour and neither does she when he is being unkind.

Thanks
BewareOfDragons · 11/12/2017 15:44

I would honestly just say a very calm but firm No.

IF he wants her there, he gets her there at his expense, end of.

He doesn't pay enough now towards her now, and you can't afford to pay for extravagant extras, especially extras for his benefit.

notapizzaeater · 11/12/2017 15:55

Perhaps he can pay for the train ticket for her Xmas present ?

Original poster
bibliomania · 11/12/2017 16:04

Could the 2 of you go to the event? Not him.

That wouldn't work, I'm afraid - it's something he's involved in and I'm not (sorry, don't want to be too outing). And obviously he wouldn't respect her being with me - he'd just summon her away from me and she'd be in a horrible position.

Random, I appreciate the point about leading her out of the FOG. She did go to counselling earlier in the year, and I think she does get it, but it's hard for her to hear it coming from me, because it feels like she's taking one side. It's been useful to get my angries out here, so I can be very calm about it to her.

OP posts:
Original poster
bibliomania · 11/12/2017 16:05

There won't be a Christmas present, nota. He doesn't like the calendar dictating when he should buy her things, apparently. He does buy her some things spontaneously.

OP posts:
Ellisandra · 11/12/2017 16:09

Doesn't like the calendar dictating? Hmm
What a shit.

I would tell her it's too expensive to take her, and not go into anything else about maintenance.

AdaColeman · 11/12/2017 16:21

Doesn't like the calendar dictating to him....what a total piss taker he is!

Mind you, I'd save that little phrase up, and use it to get out of any request he made of me in the future. Xmas Wink

ElephantsandTigers · 11/12/2017 16:23

I think it's really unfair for a child to have to use her birthday money to see her dad. The usual pay per view saying turned on its head. He's a dick. But so he can treat you like shit your dd has to cough up.

Tell her you can't afford it. Her dad pays a tenth of what he is supposed to and much as you would like her to have a dad that is great for her, she doesn't and the courts have intervened. The latter couched in age appropriate tones.

Toffeelatteplease · 11/12/2017 16:25

Tell her if you wanted to afford to do it you'd take her yourself. If he's excited about doing something with her he needs to take responsibility for it himself. You are not responsible for his actions there anymore than she is. Or he needs to ask ahead, then you aren't obligated to agree, your agreement will depend on a whole host of things like finances or whether or not you fancy the journey. If it's important to him he needs to cover the event himself. It is not your outing it is not your responsibility whether it does or doesn't happen.

Do not make her pay her money towards it. If it was my daughter suggesting it is would by vehemently refusing as it's not up to your DD to supplement his lifestyle. Do it once and he will keep doing it.

Ask her whether it is right to let someone get excited about something you don't have it in your power to give. Try to put it in terms she might understand like offering someone sweets that they don't have then saying someone else will give the sweets instead. Whose in the right whose in the wrong

Don't make it about whether you can afford it or whether he has paid the CMS. He can't do it to you whether he has paid the CMS of not, it is not reasonable behaviour.

Make it about what is reasonable and normal in a relationship and what isn't. Start giving her the tools to work it out herself

RandomMess · 11/12/2017 16:30

@Toffeelatteplease has managed to come up with the angle and wording I couldn't think of. That is what I mean my leading her out if the FOG.

You are always free to say "Daddy does do some lovely things with/for you such as x y z, but he was unkind to do this to mummy because of a b c".