Grenfell ex-residents should get a 3-bed house with a garden if that's what they want

[pingodolcepo]

Daily mail outrage that some of the residents are asking for a 3-bed house with a garden. But honestly, they have been through a living hell that was caused by someone else's very bad choices.

There are plenty of people in London that have a 3 bed council house, why can't these people that have dealt with horrors get one also?

I know someone that got a council house in Highgate in the 80s, was a cabbie with a good wage, bought it when offered and sold it a few years ago for over a million and now lives in a fab place with loads of land and a pool in the south of France. If plenty of normal people got houses why can't these poor residents get one? They won't ever be able to afford to buy it due to the high cost of london houses now.

There's always someone, sooner or later, who wanders on to a thread and starts inventing tall tales.

I live in k&c just a stones throw from where this tragedy happened, I along with hundreds of others live in temporary accomadation, average wait time of being given a permenant social housing property is around 10 years+ When you are in temporary accommodation unless you are priority due to medical reasons, domestic violence etc.
Since the Grenfell tragedy no one apart from the people directly affected by it can bid on any properties on the housing website and k&c have said this will be the case until the unforeseeable future.
We had letters through the post the other day asking us to fill in a questionnaire, that k&c plan to give Grenfell victims higher points than people who have medical reasons for suitable housing and asking us our thoughts on it etc.
There really is a shortage of properties in k&c and unfortunately the council can’t magic them out of nowhere, although I totally agree that they shouldn’t be placed in high rise block after the trauma they have been through, I do believe if people want to be housed and kept in the k&c than they are going to have to be a little less ‘fussy’ and accept a property aslong as it is suitable of course. And in the mean time any one else on the housing list will be waiting a few years longer at least due to this but at least we have adaquite roofs over are heads and have not directly been involved in the terrible fire that took place.

Have you been offered any out-of-borough options Aqua? Or is there any such talk?

No - I meant the original tenant keeps the bills in his name so that it looks as if he is still resident there, then charges an inclusive rent. It would be one way to avoid checks!

Southwark council have had to set aside millions to pay back tenants after the resent court case,

They were paid by Thames water to manage the accounts & take payments ,
The judge ruled that profit should of been passed on in reduced water rates to the tenants

The social housing people get in-work benefits, the main one being Housing which reduces their rent, and Council Tax which is discounted.

The social housing people get in-work benefits, the main one being Housing which reduces their rent, and Council Tax which is discounted.

Chakra, asking as nicely as I can muster through a benylin haze; What relevance does that have to any preceding post? What on earth are "social housing people"? And you do realise private tenants claim in work benefits too?

Rebecca, Thanks, I see what you mean. I suppose new tenants will have other bills registered there though such as bank details, mobile phones, for school places if they have kids etc. I think it is quite hard to have everything in cash only and no need for proof of address for anything.

Also, fraud investigators could check if the original tenant is registered elsewhere/owning property it doesn't have to be just the bills to the property that are checked.

I’ve noticed recently we’ve had tenancy enforcement officers locally which is one good thing to come out of this,
although this should of been happening years ago

Battleax- no i have never been offered any properties inside or out of the borough, how it works here is you have points (mine are the minimum you can get) and a priority date from the time you was placed in temporary accomadation. Each week there used to be a couple of properties up on the housing website mostly in the borough, some out and you could bid aslong as it was what you was entitled to, but those go to who is in need more, have higher points or have been on the housing list the longest. The council can directly offer you properties some times and you have to take it if you don’t then you will be taken of the list but since the Grenfell tradegy there are no properties for anyone but the people affected by it.

Yes, Battleax I do know. I've said that a few pages back. All tenants, council and with private landlords are subsidised depending on wages. You were talking about social housing, and I am using the same phrase. What's your problem?

It does feel a bit off the way they're dealing with all this. I feel for you Aqua. I don't suppose anyone knows how long the freeze will last?

It just felt like you were doing some kind of tabloid plop apropos nothing chakra.

(And I don't believe I'd ever call social tenants "social housing people".)

Battleax no need to feel for me, I have a roof over my head I’m not complaining in the slightest, I don’t feel put out by it at all, there just seems to be misconceptions that the victims of grenfell are not being housed or offered housing. According to the k&c housing list there are numbers of new development housing in Notting Hill, Ladbroke Grove and kings road being offered to them but it states that after what they have been through they are not being pressured to accept or take these properties. Whether what k&c allege they are doing is the truth or not is anyone’s guess

"social tenants" is hardly grammatically correct Battleax. Are you trying to monster three words I have used just to be awkward, which I think describe who we are talking about. Do you prefer "recipients of social housing"? If I were you I would chuck the Benylin and try horseradish on bread.

As for the ‘freeze’ my guess would be at least a few years, k&c words on there housing site was for the ‘unforeseeable future’ so that probably means they don’t know themselves.

It's still a lot of people in Limbo, even if you're cheerful about it. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at their meetings.

Mothertruck3r I think you and most people would actually be horrified at the lack of information available through statutory bodies. No the council do not have access to Land registry, Home Office, utility records. Nor do councils have exchange of information between councils. In my opinion they should buy it's protected data. It can be obtained under the 'protection and detection of crime ' but that required a reasonable cause. Not available as a matter of course.
, It's against the law to go poking around having a look.. we really do make it ridiculously hard for ourselves.

That said, even if we did have that access to information it wouldn't really help as all bills /rent/ utilities remain in the legal tenants name and the subletter pays the tenant the inflated rent plus the bills. It is as important to the illegal tenant as the legal tenant to keep this subterfuge going.
The only way to deal with it is man power. Checking flats and actually dealing with it when identified. But that is very intensive resource-wise.
As for the future, the only way I can think of to ensure only the person /people legally entitled is living there is some kind of biometric lock on the doors that checks iris/ fingerprints etc .

kittens that's a very good idea about biometric locks.

According to the k&c housing list there are numbers of new development housing in Notting Hill, Ladbroke Grove and kings road being offered to them but it states that after what they have been through they are not being pressured to accept or take these properties

But if some Grenfell people are refusing available properties and nobody else can bid for them, does that mean that there are homes standing empty while someone hopes they'll change their minds?

Because if so, I'd suggest that others on the waiting list are moved into them like now

This thread has also made me think about perceived 'rights' to live in your community, near your family, friends, Work etc and I am trying to understand why certain people believe in this right when it comes to social housing.
Is it not the case that both working and middle classes have always moved for work from the earliest times. Weren't we an agricultural based economy less than 300 years ago whereupon all those wanting more work/better Work, up sticks and went to look for opportunities in the town. My own family tree includes migration from Fife to London , Somerset to Wandsworth. Pretty sure they didn't worry too much about leaving their communities. They simply made new ones where they settled.
The same goes for the middle classes . How many people get to work next to where they live ?
How many have to endure the dreaded, expensive over crowded commute. ? How many here on MN alone have other halves who Work away all week. ? Sometimes weeks at a time. ? Away from there 'families and community '

Is it because they want to or because they go where the job/money is.? Do they believe the government has a requirement to house them near that Work ? It's really hard to understand where that level of entitlement comes from. ?

This thread has also made me think about perceived 'rights' to live in your community, near your family, friends, Work etc and I am trying to understand why certain people believe in this right when it comes to social housing.

It's because, historically, the "local connection" and "family connection" criteria were very important in accessing social housing. Those rules were reformed a generation ago in response to concerns that they caused indirect racial discrimination, but the principle is still in the DNA of public housing (which is administered by local authorities who still have weaker local connection tests) and in the collective memory.

It varies, though; In St Albans you need TEN years' residence to establish a "local connection"; In Brum ONE year is sufficient. (Just two examples I've noticed while poking around, not an exhaustive survey.)

I can understand and empathise why they wouldn't want to back to living in a flat after that horror