Grenfell ex-residents should get a 3-bed house with a garden if that's what they want

[pingodolcepo]

Daily mail outrage that some of the residents are asking for a 3-bed house with a garden. But honestly, they have been through a living hell that was caused by someone else's very bad choices.

There are plenty of people in London that have a 3 bed council house, why can't these people that have dealt with horrors get one also?

I know someone that got a council house in Highgate in the 80s, was a cabbie with a good wage, bought it when offered and sold it a few years ago for over a million and now lives in a fab place with loads of land and a pool in the south of France. If plenty of normal people got houses why can't these poor residents get one? They won't ever be able to afford to buy it due to the high cost of london houses now.

Make - but you did. You turned a conversation about social housing into saying why don't we pull out of refugee treaties and other such hyperbole

There is a middle ground, chaps.

There always is and it's usually the firmest ground.

The thing is that the more this happens (abuse of the welfare system, certain groups being given preference for social housing), the more people who are working and just getting by will decide to jack in their jobs and follow suit.

I know a few people now who decided not to continue in jobs that were long hours with long expensive commutes who ended up on the same after-tax income as their part time, low paid neighbours who were living in social housing. They decided to follow suit (although get Local Housing Allowance for their private rental instead of HB) but now have about the same income for part-time low paid work (subsidised by quite a lot of benefits) than they did whilst in a better paid, full time job (because of taxes etc) and they have more time to spend with their kids.

At some point the Government is going to realise that the more they give to those that haven't contributed (or contribute less than they take out), the more everyone else follows suit until hardly anybody is paying into the system. Then we get default because the country has too much debt but can't pay it back and everyone will suffer.

I know that for a long time certain people have felt that they "couldn't speak out about things". "PC gone mad isn't it?" "Snowflakes, etc." "We need to have a conversation about race and immigration."

Perhaps because, ironically, you were the one who instantly jumped in to accuse previous posters of racism;

"Damn you guys really dislike brown people don't you."

Nobody had mentioned the colour of skin until you did. Do you believe that only people with white skin can behave badly/be open to criticism? If so, that makes you a racist.

or contribute less than they take out

There will always be situations where people require more help. That is the basis of social insurance. It may happen to any of us at any time.

Nobody had mentioned the colour of skin until you did. Do you believe that only people with white skin can behave badly/be open to criticism? If so, that makes you a racist.

You are confusing bigotry with racism. Racism requires the systemic abuse of a subset by a group in power.

For instance, there can be misogyny but not misandry - power structures are set up to favour the patriarchy.

In a society set up on the basis of white majority power, a person of colour can be as bigoted as anyone. They cannot be racist.

makeourfuture

n a society set up on the basis of white majority power, a person of colour can be as bigoted as anyone. They cannot be racist.

A far left fantasy if ever there was one!

So on that basis, Makeourfuture, women and People of colour will ALWAYS be victims?
Not a very positive outlook on life really.

That has changed recently hasn't it? Now if someone spews some ignorant bile and someone raises an objection all hell breaks loose.

... and it's this kind of thoroughly ignorant clap trap that closes down conversations that need to be had.

Most worrying is your assertion that 'ignorant bile' and 'someone raises an objection' should be lumped together in a charge of racism and/or racial intolerance. The former is certainly unpleasant but the latter deserves examination and consideration.

This kind of patronising 'all foreigners are lovely, vulnerable, paragons of virtue who have done /can do no wrong is as stereotypical and batshit in its thinking as 'all foreigners have stolen out houses' .

There IS a problem with newcomers scamming the system to get housing /education/ /services etc.
There IS a massive problem with people claiming asylum who are NOT in fear of their lives but manage to persuade the authorities that they are (or might be).

If I had a pound for every illegal I had arrested who had claimed asylum , been granted and then had a stamp in their new British Passport showing them arriving in their country of origin less than six months later. (For a family visit) then I would have enough money to buy my own house in Kensington !
On the other hand am I proud of the fact that I live in a country that offers sanctuary to those in need and fear for their lives. ? You bet I am. Very proud.
It is NOT about race. It's nothing about race it's about fairness. If you have waited on the housing list in Kensington for 9 yrs and someone who has illegally sublet their flat - is now going to be given a new property (which they will also sublet) plus compensation. OR someone is getting a new flat because they had illegally rented a council flat - ahead of you patiently waiting. It doesn't matter one jot if they are Somalian or Welsh . It's unfair
Just because The unpalatable fact is that they are MUCH more likely to be Somalian because that's where their communities are. (Which doesn't mean there is a god given right to be there) and you are unhappy about it doesn't make you racist . It makes you dislike injustice.

Many many things need to change. No more migrants who do not have accommodation.
Checks at the National Insurance number interview that the accommodation is not social housing . If it is then council notified and Nat Ins No. not issued.

Every Grenfell tower resident who was a legal tenant (with a tenancy agreement from the borough council. )to be rehoused in a appropriate property for the size of their DEPENDENT family. As close as possible. That does not mean in Zone 1.

In a society set up on the basis of white majority power, a person of colour can be as bigoted as anyone. They cannot be racist.

Thats only true if you try and redefine the terminology, there are many instances of POC being racist to each other and to whites.

Kittens you talk a lot of sense imo.
Stifling debate is never healthy, no matter how 'offensive' the opinion is.

kittens are you with the home office?

Thank you kittens, you talk sense and it is unfair.

I'm not with the Home Office . I do work with the Home Office though. I won't say where I work. It is to niche to be guessed and an admission could out me although tbh can't imagine many colleagues on MN Suffice to say I do know what I'm talking about. My posts are based on facts and experience. I do not have a race agenda. My family is mixed race. I am a labour supporter and Aneurin Bevan the founder of the NHS is my hero. (Just before I am accused of being a right wing hate-filled Nazi apologist ).

It is BECAUSE I am such a fervent believer in a welfare state, that is there to help in a time of genuine need. In an asylum policy that is a shining beacon to human rights throughout the world and a health service that provides 'from the cradle to the grave' and is rightly the envy of other countries, that I get so angry at those who abuse it and that includes social housing.
We have some amazing services in this country but unless we protect them and prevent people who are not entitled to them, from abusing them, then they will all gradually disappear and the blame will lie squarely at the door of all those who refuse to 'call out' people who manipulate, queue jump and scam regardless of wether they are pink, white, brown or green.

Nuance like that will just confuse people on MN kittens. Everyone here likes their politics clearcut and polarised

I don't think it's just MN to be fair ☺️

Completely agree!

i live in kensington and chelsea and Gardens are rare even if you are a millionaire ... you may have a postage stamp paved area to put pots on ....,
as for council houses rare too ....
my friend lives in a housing association studio with her husband and five year old twins ...so whole family live eat and sleep in one room
they would love a three bed flat but there aren't any

kittensinmydinner has said it all. There is a great deal of deceit when it comes to Housing. I live in a high immigrant area and, as mentioned a few pages back, I knew of a Somali family who were travelling back every year to visit family - this is during the civil war. They were housed in a semi detached house, all mod cons, until the landlord wanted the property back to sell. Then they were moved to newly-built 3 storey high flats near Kew.

I'm totally fed up of some posters automatically jumping in with race accusations. And as kittens says, no council tenant has the right to insist on where they are rehoused. They can request (close to job), but not insist. Private renters are forced to move all the time and endure further commute, the kids needing to change schools etc. Council tenants do not have an inalienable right not to be disrupted.

And as Bertrand Russell stated - there is no superior virtue of the oppressed, esp. in those who come from misogynist and sectarian cultures where the oppression has always been from within. They tend to be exactly the same.

Exactly Nanny, your friend would be overcrowded by anyone's standard.
And yet there are pp on here who think victims who rented their Grenfell flat illegally should have a higher priority than your friend. It's nonsense.
Maybe if more people who were overcrowded/homeless came forward, the Grenfell pearl-clutchers might see the human side of demanding homes for the victims as a priority. The people like your friend would probably not dare speak out though, as it is not the done thing to criticise.

Makeourfuture
Do you have a job, if you don't mind me asking?
It's just that you seem to spen an awful lot of time on mumsnet promoting socialism and expounding on the wickedness of the Tory party.

IF there really was a problem with newcomers scamming the system to get housing /education/ /services etc
in Grenfell tower (which we don’t know yet)
Then hopefully Kensington & Chelsea council will be held accountable for that, they should of been doing the job they are paid to do,
On the night of the fire they couldn’t even produce a list (for the fire brigade) of the tenants legally living in the block

I think we are forgetting all the hardworking tenants that we now know we’re paying £195 + service per week for a one bed flat (which is more than my mortgage in the same area).
I for one would not begrudge them a decent home especially considering they had probably paid the cost of the flat several times over.

I think we are forgetting all the hardworking tenants that we now know we’re paying £195 + service per week for a one bed flat (which is more than my mortgage in the same area).

That's not what the private tenants are paying, is it? And surely they would have had the option to turn down this flat?

Your mortgage is irrelevant.

No, not sure what the private tenants were paying , that’s what the council tenants were paying