DHs nieces being mean to my DD

[Hulashaker]

Hoping for some general advice or words of experience here.

When my DD was 18 months old we were at a family gathering with my DH family. Two of his nieces (5/7) took my DD to play upstairs in a bedroom - fine. After about 10 minuets I popped upstairs to use the toilet, when I came out I could here some comments from 5 DN saying she's ruining the game, not playing in right I don't want to pay with her etc. I sat on the top step listening where I couldn't been seen, for only maybe a minute. Then they opened the bedroom door got my daughter to leave, couldn't see so don't know how and then shut her out of the room. This was at the top of a staircase which I considered quite dangerous as at that age they aren't the most stable on stairs alone, and she easily could have fallen. I picked her up and took her downstairs and played with her. I understand if they don't want to play with a child so much younger, however they insisted they wanted to take her upstairs to play. Anyway after that I haven't left my DD alone with them, which is exhausting at gatherings but that's not the issue.

So flash forward to my DD third birthday. We had a family party, as trying to save money before the official ones start. My MIL takes my daughter upstairs to play, totally fine no worries about this, then about 30 minutes later she comes back downstairs. So naturally I ask where my DD is, and ages upstairs with the same two nieces. So I go to check everything is ok, as I get to my stairs I hear my daughter crying saying stop it stop it, when I get in the room the elder niece on pinning her to the bed, but stops sharpishly when she hears me. I ask DD is she's ok and she says DN1 pushes me. So I have a little word and then leave. Unknown to them I go to my room and turn the monitor on, I have a video one, so I can see and hear what's happening. They start by ignoring her, gently shoving her, my DD seems to think it's a game at this point - she's only 3 so doesn't hear the meanness in their voices.

Then DN2 tells DN1 to get my DD rocking horse and put it on DD bed, literally an inch of the edge. They then pick my DD up to put her on the horse. At that point I go in tell them not to do that, it's not safe and remove my DD from their arms and put the horse on the floor and leave again. Then they start to moan saying they're going downstairs and lets just leave her here. When my DD tries to fallow them downstairs DN2 pushes her so hard my DD falls, she's pretty sturdy so this was some shove. My DD cried and my niece, who witnessed this got to my DD first and picked her up and took her away.

I have discussed with DH and he doesn't want to raise with his sisters - one niece from each sister, they're cousins not sisters. Which is fine, it's his family and he has agreed to be moe vigilant and jot leave DD alone with them again.

I just want to know why they are doing this, I can't seem to find any reason for why they do this at any opportunity they are alone. Can anyone shed any light that might make me understand this?

I am starting to feel really anxious about the Christmas family get together now, to the point that I'm having nightmares.

I dont think its usual older children behaviour either. They need a bollocking for being mean, and definitely for shoving etc

I don't think this is "normal" at all and I would find it very worrying. As we sadly know from recent history, children of that age are capable of being very cruel to younger children, sometimes with fatal consequences.

I know that in the most infamous case psychiatrists studied the two perpetrators for six years and were still never able to figure out why they did it.

The more you post about them, the worse they sound.

They sound like my brother and sil. Only their child counts. They are teaching him to do what he wants and what my dd wants doesn’t matter. Eg he wants to spend an hour playing on a ride on toy and expect my dd to push him round, that’s fine and she should suck it up and not expect to have a ride it herself... he’s only little you know.

Sil screamed at my dd for being upset about something because it was upsetting her son. All dd did was come inside crying and we were cuddling. And she followed in with her son and created a scene therefore she upset her son, not us. She has always treated my dd as though she should behave as an adult, even when she was 6 or 7. Ironically their ds is now this age but he is only little after all .

My dd has only ever been loving and caring and gentle with her little cousin, who she absolutely adores and was very sad when we had to go NC a few months ago to protect dd from sil and me from my brothers violence. Dd 3 years older. Parents also drink. A lot. Sil especially.

My advice remains the same as upthread. Stay away from them. You and your child will always be in the wrong. Keeping her in your sight is not sustainable long term and at 5, she will either be bored to bits or want to be off playing. As she gets older, she will start to tell you about incidents where her cousins treat her badly. She will not be believed. She will always be brushed aside as little and stupid and the incident didn’t happen or that she is telling tales. And you will be the awkward, difficult, helicopter mum bitched about and condescended to. Why put yourself through all of this? You only need to see them at weddings, christenings and funerals. So just do that.

Another one saying that this isn't normal behaviour.

The rocking horse incident makes my blood run cold. I'd be aghast if my DD(5) did that to a little cousin or friend and would deal with it very seriously. I would absolutely expect her to realise at that age that the little one could get hurt, and for her to deliberately set that up?!?

My DD's are 9 and 7, and I'd be shocked if they or their friends acted like this.
It'd be so out of character - they love playing with little kids, are gentle and kind and very patient.
At year 5 and 3, they are well old enough to know that your DD could be hurt by the rocking horse being on the end of the bed.

I'd avoid as much as possible, and "take DD to the park" when they all start getting pissed together. That can't be fun for you either to sit sober watching people you don't like get drunk.
Or just go home and tell your DH you will be back to collect him when he wants to come home.

"This is my first child and I'm not sure if I'm over reacting to things or being reasonable when they gang up on me and I'm the only opposing opinion"
Imv you are not overreacting. It doesn't matter too much to you whether they are responsible for their own actions yet, or why they do it - but what matters is the effect on your dd.

On a practical level yes you can 'manage' this by keeping dd away from them at the Christmas gathering, but it is awful for you that you are having nightmares about it.

Presumably if a pp suggested 'don't go to the family gathering' you would respond that dh wouldn't hear of it, couldn't take the fallout etc. This is quite common, and it is a problem. Won't necessarily go away in future - you can live with it and work round it, but it's worth realising that it may be a cause of arguments in the future. (Actually rereading your later posts I see that it has been a cause of major arguments in the past!)

Sending you many sympathies. We have an idealised version that older cousins will just love to play with the younger ones - it can be very upsetting when they don't.

Cry off of Christmas with a cold, let dh go if he wants he could stay over or get a taxi if he wants a drink. It doesn't sound as if its something you enjoy anyway. You could even agree to pick up and drop off if you wanted then have a lovely time with your dd.

We have a similar issue with a niece where she picks on my ds he is a few months older but he is asd and doesn't cope very well with it. We just avoid them now. There will be a present handover soon and I am trying to get it done whilst they are still at school otherwise I will send dp on his own

Some kids are just little shits. End of.

Your nieces fall into this category.

You are not overreacting and I would be furious too. Some people take the line that it's normal behaviour (including his family) but what's normal to one will be completely abnormal to somebody else.

Everyone has different boundaries. They sound very lax, not concerned about possible dangerous situations hence letting them wander off at the firework display. They have completely minimised the downright nasty behaviour displayed and are no doubt people who bleat 'oh kids will be kids'

It's a shame that your husband isn't more on board really, but by the sounds of it he comes from a rather dysfunctional family so he probably doesn't even know how to make sense of his own feelings.

Personally I would set some boundaries. Don't feel that you have to justify any of your decisions to them. If they question you, why aren't Nieces allowed to play with your daughter etc just say, because I don't want that and change the subject.

So these kids are left to their own devices while adults drink. That's not responsible and adults won't want to hear it. Keep away, it's not fun

It can be difficult to put our dcs' interests first when we know it will cause fall-outs with adults, particularly if they're related. But we are the ones who have to do it.

You can take the 'quiet' non-confrontational approach of protecting a dc by not letting it be alone with the perpetrators. Many of us prefer that approach. But sometimes I wonder if dc need to see us standing up for them more openly. It is worth asking ourselves why we put avoiding open conflict ahead of saying 'don't treat dc like this please'. I realise there may be good reasons.

Sothatdidntwork - I would be happy to talk to them about this but my DH does not want me to. I agree though that children should see you stand up for them so they learn that standing up for things is right.

Before I had DD we used to go to these gatherings and I would drink as why not, and I used to be surprised how that meant no one in the room was sober when there were 6 children around even as young as 6 months. But as I said my style is very different to theirs, which has been a big learning curve for DH I think. He's grown up with one style and then I'm saying no I don't want this for x and y reasons. Mostly he takes it on board but has/is taking some doing

One of our nieces had a habit of being not very nice to our DD. Our DD is now ten and taller than niece who is 13. Also acts more mature than niece. Niece now wants to be friends.

Follow your instinct, gut feelings are there for a reason

The incident when the nieces were 5 and 7 sounds normal enough because kids that age can be thoughtless with toddlers but the later incidents when they’re older sound terrible. You are right to keep your daughter away from them.

Did you challenge the kids directly on what they were doing? You sound very passive in this, listening on the stairs, watching the monitor, talking to your DH etc. If it were my nieces or nephews (and I don’t even know them that well because we live abroad) then I would challenge them directly and tell them to be careful and play nicely with one another, not to do dangerous things. At 7-10 years old, they’re old enough to understand right from wrong and be told that by another adult who is not their parent. If your ILs challenge you, just say that your DD’s safety comes first because she is younger / smaller and the older kids should know better.

Then again, I have fallen out with my ILs before, rarely see them and don’t really care about the relationship with them so if your priority is being nice then the above might be bad advice!

By ILs, I mean BILs. I get on fine with the PILs!

I agree with you op it's not on.

She will go to school and grow up thinking this is ok. It's not.

I wouldn't let them play together or leave them unsupervised with them. They sound vile.

I would stay away. Keep your dd with you.

I'm the youngest of a gaggleof cousins. And youngest of siblings (obviously) No one ever treated me like this.
I'd keep an eye on the little dears.

Plus - you are their auntie whether a blood relative or not. I didn't differentiate between who I shared blood with and who I didn't among aunties and uncles at that age. Don't now fwiw.

I only refer to them as DH nieces as we don't have a relationship and thought it would be easier for perspective for opinions.

I have two briefed who are amazing with my DD and they are in the middle of both those ages - but my sister and I are incredibly close so the whole situation is different. As soon as I went in the youngest ran to the other side of the room and the eldest went bright red in the face- which to me showed they knew they were doing wrong and couldn't figure out how they'd been caught

I did tell them not to do, that it's not safe. In fact I walked into the room and said 'er no girls that's not safe please do not do things like that'. SIL do not take kindly to me telling their children off - this has been an issue before and I was told not to tell their children off in future. That was when they were running around and screaming in a restaurant and after about 45 minutes of them ignoring it I couldn't help myself - I know I shouldn't have but the behaviour was dangerous to the staff and they were running up and down stairs.