DHs nieces being mean to my DD

[Hulashaker]

Hoping for some general advice or words of experience here.

When my DD was 18 months old we were at a family gathering with my DH family. Two of his nieces (5/7) took my DD to play upstairs in a bedroom - fine. After about 10 minuets I popped upstairs to use the toilet, when I came out I could here some comments from 5 DN saying she's ruining the game, not playing in right I don't want to pay with her etc. I sat on the top step listening where I couldn't been seen, for only maybe a minute. Then they opened the bedroom door got my daughter to leave, couldn't see so don't know how and then shut her out of the room. This was at the top of a staircase which I considered quite dangerous as at that age they aren't the most stable on stairs alone, and she easily could have fallen. I picked her up and took her downstairs and played with her. I understand if they don't want to play with a child so much younger, however they insisted they wanted to take her upstairs to play. Anyway after that I haven't left my DD alone with them, which is exhausting at gatherings but that's not the issue.

So flash forward to my DD third birthday. We had a family party, as trying to save money before the official ones start. My MIL takes my daughter upstairs to play, totally fine no worries about this, then about 30 minutes later she comes back downstairs. So naturally I ask where my DD is, and ages upstairs with the same two nieces. So I go to check everything is ok, as I get to my stairs I hear my daughter crying saying stop it stop it, when I get in the room the elder niece on pinning her to the bed, but stops sharpishly when she hears me. I ask DD is she's ok and she says DN1 pushes me. So I have a little word and then leave. Unknown to them I go to my room and turn the monitor on, I have a video one, so I can see and hear what's happening. They start by ignoring her, gently shoving her, my DD seems to think it's a game at this point - she's only 3 so doesn't hear the meanness in their voices.

Then DN2 tells DN1 to get my DD rocking horse and put it on DD bed, literally an inch of the edge. They then pick my DD up to put her on the horse. At that point I go in tell them not to do that, it's not safe and remove my DD from their arms and put the horse on the floor and leave again. Then they start to moan saying they're going downstairs and lets just leave her here. When my DD tries to fallow them downstairs DN2 pushes her so hard my DD falls, she's pretty sturdy so this was some shove. My DD cried and my niece, who witnessed this got to my DD first and picked her up and took her away.

I have discussed with DH and he doesn't want to raise with his sisters - one niece from each sister, they're cousins not sisters. Which is fine, it's his family and he has agreed to be moe vigilant and jot leave DD alone with them again.

I just want to know why they are doing this, I can't seem to find any reason for why they do this at any opportunity they are alone. Can anyone shed any light that might make me understand this?

I am starting to feel really anxious about the Christmas family get together now, to the point that I'm having nightmares.

I also agree. Bigger children are more often than not kind to small children

At 18 months she was too young to be left alone with them.

Now she's 3 and they are 7 and 9 (? ish) it seems they are just plain nasty. I would not leave her alone with them. Who knows whether they will grow out of this. If their parents don't know about it, then they have no opportunity to be reprimanded and guided to behave better

I disagree that bigger children are often mean to smaller ones. They were being cruel, most children are not cruel.

In a similar situation although happily we aren't related, I spoke sternly to the child in question and made sure I supervised better.

We haven't gone back to their house since, I promised my DS I would never put him that situation again.

I wouldn't let my child play with them alone. And I'd be very closely involved if I let them play together at all. They tried to hurt her. They are bullies. They are old enough to know better.

This is not typical behaviour among children. Mine would never behave like this towards any child, let alone a much younger one. I’m not sure about the reason but I think I would have to raise the issue. They are being deliberately cruel to a much younger child and they need to understand that this is wrong.

Only allow them to play with your dd where you can supervise. Never mind what the other family me think, surely your own child’s safety is most important? Did you tell them about the rocking horse incident? No need to imply it was malicious, it simply demonstrates that they aren’t able to play with such a young child safely.

However, it does sound as if they have a nasty dynamic going on. Doesn’t mean they will become psychopaths just a stage some children go through. They probably only do this when together as well.

They understand it's wrong, don't they? One of them stopped pinning the little one down when they realised the OP was coming.

Don't put your daughter through this OP and don't be afraid to say why. You might be doing these girls a favour by highlighting that not everyone thinks their behaviour is normal.

Fraid they sound like totally normal kids for their age. If yoi2 want to raise it you just have to be clear at the time and tell them off or tell their parents.

You should not have let them take an 18 month old unattended upstairs unless one of them was particularly responsible type of child and I think you will realise when you have a 5 yr old they are still very little.

I have a 5 yr old abd absolutely he tried to shut his little sister out ob the landing sometimes. The danger of stairs wouldnt enter his head at that age.

Awful behaviour. My dd is 10 and her sister is 3. As a result dd1s friends often play with dd2 and they are lovely with her. They dote on her and she loves them. The nieces are awful and you absolutely have to remove your child from them.

I think kids aren't exposed to younger kids in the way they used to be (the 'good old days') so they aren't used to being in a big group of kids of mixed ages.

As a defence OP can I suggest you just say "oh, it's not fair for the nieces to look after DD, she's so young and she can't play the way they want to. No, I insist, I won't have her ruining their fun."

There will be an element of this at play. Your little DD has been foisted on them (not by you of course) and they are maybe a little resentful.

It’s all very well saying you are made to feel silly if you think your dd needs supervision with the other kids - but that’s no reason to stop you doing what you think is right.

Since the incident when she was 18 months I haven't left them alone with her - the only reason it happened on this occasion was because MIL left them and as soon as I knew I went up. I then used the monitor to see if I was right or bring over protective.

Now my DD is older I'm much better at standing my ground and saying no to them - I found it hard as a new mother as I was finishing my ground, suffered with slight PND and loss of a close family member. Made it hard for me to see clearly if I was being over sensitive or right for my child.

My DH will not have it discussed- we have had LOTS of arguments over the years because of his family and how they treat me. Even though we live in the same city we can go 3 months without seeing his side of the family- which given all the issues is fine with me, I tried when we were first married but you can only be the only person making the effort for so long before you give up. Whole other set of issues.

What is your husbands reason for not discussing it? Does he not like confrontation or does he not want to deal with potential fall out?

It sounds as if it’s a very good thing you don’t see them often isn’t it? The adults bullying you, the parenting completely different, the children allowed to be unkind to your dd. And I do agree, it was unwise to leave an 18 month old with a 5 and 7 yo.

Thee are two reasons from what I can gather why DH doesn't want to address it 1- I was the one who witnessed the incidents and they will say I'm either lying or over reacting or 2 the fallout as they won't take kindly to hearing it.

I'm sure most parents would t like to hear negative things about their child.

I disagree with some posters. It is true that children aren't always nice to each other. But some of what OPs nieces have been doing is quite clearly more than "not nice".

I also don't buy "they're too young" argument. At 7 and 9 years old, I would fully expect children to know that putting a rocking horse over the edge of the bed and then putting a younger child on it was wrong. It is obvious the intention was to make it fall and therefore to give the younger a child a fright, at the very least. At those ages I would fully expect that they were aware it was a nasty thing to do. They may not have realised the full implications, but they would have known it was nasty and might have hurt their cousin.

Your daughter will learn great coping/negotiating skills

Nonsense.

You don't learn "coping skills" from being bullied by people bigger and stronger than you. You are traumatised by it.

Keep your daughter away from these children, OP. And if your husband won't help you protect her from them, he's in the wrong. He should be standing up for his child and his partner. Not putting them second to relatives whose children are bullies.

I understand you're under pressure from DH's potentially batshit family. You're right not to allow it to happen again. Mil can fuck right off frankly. If it were me I'd not go into detail I'd just say "nah" or "I don't think so" and breezily change the subject / walk to a different room (with my DC!). There's no need for a confrontation or "clearing the air" just set the boundary in your own mind and then enforce it when a situation arises.

You don't need to "make an effort" with DH's family BTW. They're his family let him sort it out. If that means rarely seeing them, all the better!

I would be upset about this. It may be normal but as pp have said, many older children are real sweeties to littler ones. If I was their parent I think I would want to know. It might be awkward, but, if asked, I would be open about why you won't let dd play with her cousins unsupervised.

If your DH won’t talk to them about it then insist you both go no contact. My DS is five and at his age if I found out he’d done any of the things you have said here I’d be furious with him even at 5. He knows better at this age than to hurt another child especially a younger one.
If your DH can’t talk to his sisters then he needs to accept your DD won’t be put in danger by spending time with their children. I.e. Christmas will be at yours or your parents this year. His sisters are not invited.
If he doesn’t believe you then I would ask him a) why he thinks you’d lie about this and b) why he isn’t packing his bags already. I’d be more than angry at him for not protecting his daughter from these bullies to make his own life easier.

If your DH believes you then he should have no problem saying not to leave your dc with the DNS & he should take over childcare at his family gatherings

If dh doesn't believe you then you have bigger problems. also if his family accuse you of lying then I wouldn't be attending any further gatherings anyway.

DH does believe me and has agreed that DD won't be left alone with them again. However when we go to these gatherings I normally drive and am then the sober one - his family are big drinkers (from my view) and all gatherings involve lots of alcohol. This means that I have to deal with things because he's normally not able to/doesn't notice - he's not smashed but quite giddy/tipsy.

I like to keep a clear head so we can leave when we need to or should something go wrong I'm in a position to deal with it responsibly and sensibly.

DH and family aren't close, but like to pretend they are, I still can't fathom the relationships out 10 years on

Normal kids for their age!!?? No way. My dd and ds are lovely with the youngest. They have friends round who also are lovely. These girls are horrid!!

My dd is just turned 2 and my ds1 is 6. I would never expect him to treat his sister that way and he has to put up with her all the time
This isn't an older/younger thing it's a these particular children being horrible thing and it's not ok

My 5 yo neice adores her 2 year old brother and cousin. She would never in a million years behave in this way and neither would any other child of a similar age let alone a 7 and 10 year old. I strongly suggest you and dd not go to his family gatherings until your dd is old enough to fend for herself.

I agree with some of the more recent posts. I think that behaviour sounds pretty mean and not usual. My daughter is nearly 2 and as we are older parents most of my friends have children who are 6 and upwards. They all completely dote on my daughter and are incredibly kind and patient with her. I can't imagine them physically hurting her in a million years, she's just a baby to them and if we're out in soft play centres etc. they're actually quite protective of her. Perhaps nothing would be gained by your husband raising it, but I definitely wouldn't want them to be alone with my child and if anyone questions it then you or your husband can explain why.