To think that this is an unreasonable punishment

[LittleMe03]

It is my nephews birthday today, he is 6 today.

On my way home from work last night I went to their house to drop off his birthday present from us.

My sister in law thanked me (nephew in bed) but then told me that he would not be receiving the present tomorrow, or any presents.

I obviously questioned why. She said, as you know his behaviour at the minute is awful and we told him last week that because of that he needs to show some good behaviour to get birthday presents and as he hasn't he needs to show good behaviour to instead receive the presents in a weeks time if he does. I didn't really know what to say at the time and left not long after.

I text my brother last night, who wasn't there at the time and asked him to reconsider this punishment as it seemed extreme considering this 'awful' behaviour has just been a 5 year old child acting out, as kids do in phases of their life. He replied to say they are at their wits end with him not listening or caring about any previous punishments, ie removing tv from his room, Ipad taken from him for a weekend etc

If just doesn't sit right with me, I know it's not my decision but it's upset me.

Fuck me they are gonna have to build a real chokey for his teen years....
He will remember what they have done for a long time - resentment is on the way if they carry on .. Won't bode well for adult relationships with them either I imagine.

It's none of your business OP. It sounds like 2 exhasperated parents who are trying to do their best. It may or may not work but they will learn something from this for next time, the parents I mean, although the kid too. He must have them at the end of their tether to dole that punishment out and you have to realise that as parents we often regret the stance we take on things but it's not good to back down so you do have to follow through.

But keep your criticism to yourself. It's none of your business.

FlowerPot we have no real idea what his awful behaviour is though. My four year old often gets so engrossed in what he's doing that he doesn't hear me speaking to him, so that could be 'not listening', I don't tell him off for this, I just put myself between him and whatever he's doing to get his attention.

And children do act up sometimes, DS did over much of the summer holidays and it was a nightmare, but I knew he was scared because our cat died and he'd just learnt that people die as well. He wasn't being deliberately naughty, he was acting out his fear and anxiety. Postponing something like his birthday or other nice event wouldn't have been an appropriate punishment for that.

Careful mirime, she will call you a bad parent too.

That child will feel resentment for years to come. It is not a suitable punishment and shouldn't ever have been threatened. They need to look into what's behind his poor behaviour. It is likely their parenting has contributed to it.

TheCatsPaws And still you keep on. This is AIBU. I said the OP was BU. I said that a 5 year old should not have a TV in his bedroom and his behaviour now has probably been partly a result of similar acts of parenting. You think this is attacking? On AIBU, disagreeing is attacking in your world?

There is very, very clearly something going on with you to have such a strong reaction on an AIBU against somebody who simply says, yep, YABU. You will notice that I have not insulted you with an ad hominem name calling attacks, yet all your posts to me are full of them.

You're not coming across as a very stable, or nice person, are you? Like I said, sort out whatever in your life is behind all your attacks, you have criicised my post, I responded, now leave it there. Stop going on and on, or maybe you truly are just out to just pick a fight. Whatever it is, sort whatever is clearly a very troubled mind out and stop taking out your shortfalls on posters here.

mirime - I agree with your post. Like I originally said, before The CatsPaws went off on her rant, well-behaved children do misbehave sometimes and your child behaving so upset because his cat died is so clearly understandable and any sort of discipline would have been completely inappropriate.

But the OP says these parents are at their wits end and for that level of angst the behaviour sounds like it has been going on for a long time, and also that none of the previous punishments have worked, which points to repeated acts of misbehaving, ie far more than just sometimes. I agree wholehearted with you that to postpone your child's birthday for his behaviour when his cat had died would have been wholly inappropriate. But the OP's post does not mention anything like that, and it is being explained to us as a consistently misbehaving child who has no other factors like a deceased pet behind it.

There you go again. I’m at least open about my attacks, you’re trying to be subtle and snide in them in order to look innocent. Similar to the popular girls at school type bullying you see. It’s really quite childish.

I think your post was attacking, not because you disagreed but because of the condescending attitude. Notice I didn’t challenge anyone else who said she was unreasonable

TheCatsPaws Oh good grief, what on earth is wrong with you? Just stop. Stop.

lol you really can’t accept you were rude.

TheCatsPaws Get help.

Well I bitten tell my children they won’t get anything for biryhday etc but would never ever dream of not letting them.

Everyone has their own parenting style and way of punishing so each to their own.

I believe in trying to resolve why the child is acting up and supporting them and making life easier for all concerned, I have and will take away iPads etc, as an adult and there have been threads on here about having shit birthdays, imagine how the child feels if we start a whole thread on how shitty our loved ones are

It's not your child, you probably don't know the half of it. I don't think that this is a particularly effective form of punishment, if anything, given their desparation I would suggest therapy. What I think is most inappropriate here is you telling your brother how to raise his child (given that he has not asked for your advice) or minimising behaviour that his parents see as problematic.

Cancelling a birthday for a five year old is quite an extreme punishment in my opinion. Not something I would personally do. However:

1. Maybe they threatened it without thinking it through and felt like they needed to follow through? Hence why they're not saying he can't have presents at all, just postponing his birthday for a week (in essence).

1. Maybe they are just at the end of their tether and genuinely don't know what else to do. Parenting is hard, especially with a demanding child and no-one is given a guide book.

Unfortunately they will have threatened it to gain some control back if they felt out of control with him, but in doing so will have made him feel completely powerless himself which may worsen his behaviour, not improve it. I totally understand your point of view, but think you shouldn't have text that as it will have come across like you were judging them.

Maybe chat to your brother about his son's behaviour, offer to help (babysit or something) as they definitely seem like they are struggling.

ot really my daughter can’t stop chatting and has missed many a lunch time, clearly not a great punishment because she still natters away [hmm

Don't people still use a star chart?

Short, immediate punishments work in this house (cant be bothered to read 5 pages, wifi and tv goes off etc). My kids dont have enough forward thinking yet to understand a punishment that lasts a week etc.

Kids do push boundaries, they are supposed to and we are supposed to give them clear and consistent guidelines. Better they do it at home than at school.

I would have given the birthday gifts but perhaps insisted that the favourite can only be played with if child has behaved well.

As for tvs in rooms and ipads my kids dont have them (we are skint) but my brothers three children do and they all have lovely manners and behave well (as far as I can see ) - non problem.

YABU - they are not abusing their child so mind your own business and do not even think about passing on the parenting advice from a bunch of MN strangers. If they want your advice, they'll ask for it.

Your Brother & SIL have poor parenting skills.

Could you suggest they try removing the iPad and bedroom tv permanently and spending time encouraging him to play outdoors and with toys, etc.

What type programmes does he watch and what games does he play on his iPad - if they’re not age appropriate, it could be the cause of a lot of his bad behaviour.

It is an unreasonable punishment for all sorts of reasons which have already been mentioned not least the long time scale and vague "better behaviour" target being way beyond most out of control 6 year olds, and the fact he's quite probably as he is due to being over tired and spending too much time indoors, with a TV in his room and an ipad...).

However texting a parent to tell them how to parent is also unreasonable. Even if they need help (which they sound as though they do), a text message is not going to do anything positive!

Everything is unreasonable on both sides of the OP unfortunately, but it doesn't look as though the OP is in much of a position to do anything about it.

Obviously if you care enough to get involved you could ask to take him out for the day to give them a break... One day out (outdoors ideally) might do the world of good and break the cycle and repair relationships.

Just sending a text or offering unsolicited advice without an offer to spend time with him away from the house will do nothing but annoy everyone.

When your child is playing up and ramps up the punishments it is a slippery slope.

It’s hard to see that in the moment though. I’ve been guilty of that. Then you are stuck with seeing it through or sending the wrong message. I can see myself in desperation, doing the same thing as these parents (postponing a birthday) but so far I’ve never had to. I did cancel Christmas and all the stuff leading up to it, the other day. Obviously I had to give it all back! But I did chat with her and we came up with a more reasoned and appropriate consequence. It’s just hard with a child who has pressed all the buttons. And our girl is largely very well behaved. Probably why we are so bad at it when she misbehaves.

my daughter can’t stop chatting and has missed many a lunch time, clearly not a great punishment because she still natters away
Ours too! It does bother her if it is a special club or something, but it’s one of those where she deals with natural consequences.

It’s not your place to text them that OP. I would be fuming, your SIL will be starting a thread soon about her interfering SIL...

and the fact he's quite probably as he is due to being over tired and spending too much time indoors, with a TV in his room and an ipad...)
That’s a bit of a quantum leap isn't it? How on earth can you make such a judgement. I have a TV in my room and an iPad, doesn’t make me less active, no reason it would for a child. Maybe the TV goes on for ten minutes in the morning. And maybe the iPad is used ten minutes before dinner. You have absolutely no idea how active this child is. But hey, why let the truth get in the way of a perfectly good judgement, eh?

I don't think it's good parenting, personally. Once the punishments start escalating in intensity you've lost control, IMHO. I have a 5 year old, my DD2. She's high spirited and feisty, and very hard work at times, but she's also sweet and funny and has lots of friends at school.

What I find works best is time out most of the time. She has to sit quietly on the bottom step with a sand timer. When it runs out, she says sorry and we talk about it.

Consequences I have used with her are loss of time on the iPad, loss of pocket money, loss of a treat (chocolate for example).

Or incentives for good behaviour.

This suggests to me that one of them came up with that as a threat and then felt they had to stick with it. Well no, they don't. You can rethink a more realistic consequence.

Not giving presents on his birthday is hurting them as much as him, and it's unnecessary. He's just going to feel that his parents are being mean to him. They miss out on enjoying his special day.

It's not your business though. You can only be supportive, they're having a very hard time, clearly.

She's high spirited and feisty, and very hard work at times, but she's also sweet and funny and has lots of friends at school

Good for you for having a lovely daughter - I'm sure these people have a lovely son too who is sweet and has lots of friends as well as being hard work and feisty... so what?!

You know absolutely nothing about these people or their child other than the fact he has been told he has to wait for his birthday presents. You're all piping in telling the OP it's bad parenting... not if it works for this specific child it's not, it might actually turn out to be excellent parenting for this particular child in the circumstances... you don't know because you haven't got a bloody clue who they are.