Dh different childhood

[Neoflex]

Dh had a very different childhood to me growing up. He had no siblings and had a very "poor" upbringing. He didn't have his own bedroom and slept on the sofa in the living room at night. They never went on family holidays or days out, but he did travel sometimes with his mum. He didn't have hobbies or big Christmas/birthdays with lots of presents. The few things he did have a child are still in the flat where he grew up and it is a few games books.
His dad was mentally ill and didn't seek treatment and was abusive. He also had a kind of hoarding problem. The flat has not been decorated or changed since the 70s because he wouldn't allow anything to be changed. His mum left when dh was 12 and moved abroad to be a carer. She offered to take dh with her but he didn't want to leave his school and friends. So he was left to cope with his dad until he was old enough to move out.
I had all the typical family events, siblings, traditions etc. most of us take for granted. I am expecting our first child and would like these traditions to continue in our family. But dh doesn't seem to appreciate or want to enjoy a lot of these things. E.g he doesn't believe in buying gifts for the sake of it so we don't do that for birthdays or Christmas. He also reacts really inappropriately when people give him gifts. We both got advent calendars from my parents this year and he gave his away. I had to nag like mad this year to just get a tree, but once we got it he really enjoyed putting it up and comes in and turns on the lights etc. It's not just Christmas - easter, Halloween, or struggling to join in with my family's traditions.
But it's small steps and I'm worried that our daughter will miss out on some of these small things that give so much joy.

Aibu to focus on this when actually I am expecting him to be excited about things he never had?
Anyone experienced something similar who can give advice?

I had a shit childhood and I find that getting given presents makes me really angry. My best guess is that I've learned not to expect that sort of kindness and when I do get it, it sort of unleashes a lot of repressed anger. It feels like something inside me is thinking, too little too late. I don't know if your DH is experiencing something similar. In any case, you don't walk away from a childhood like that 100 percent OK, and I bet he would benefit from counselling just to explore what happened to him and whether some of how he lives now is a direct result of that.
I also think that if you want to eat salami and crisps and have presents, it's not up to him either to stop you or to make it so uncomfortable for you that you stop doing these things. A shit childhood is no excuse for making everyone else's life harder.

Your dh sounds just like me.

FWIW, we've succeeded in making Xmas very magical for our dc without any gifts or consumerism, just by doing things together that are fun.

Perhaps get him to agree to one present each plus a stocking for DD with a price limit and build up each year.

Do you not have access to money to be able to buy a few Christmassy bits?

My DDad had a very difficult childhood, as did DP. The way their experiences manifest themselves in later life can be quite complicated to deal with. I remember that my dDad expected us to be incredibly grateful for the slightest thing we received and he could be quite fearful about things which related back to the terrible losses he experienced. He wanted a perfect, stress free family life to compensate for his childhood. Even now he can be quite childlike and selfish and he's in his seventies. Understanding this has helped me to address some of the parenting issues and general attitude to family life DP has. Ultimately they are both loving fathers. They just have a load of issues none of which was their fault.

You know you don't have to ask his permission to get a tree or give presents or buy crisps or socks. You just do it. If you feel you have to ask his permission to do this stuff your relationship is unhealthy.

I wouldn't have children with him just yet, OP. I'd only want to have children with someone who shared my values. I know you have to compromise to some extent but there are things that I wouldn't want to compromise on - I think you'd struggle with a child just at the moment.

Have you talked pre having kids about his different experiences and values. Has it been a problem before re parties, celebrations and your family? Surely it has.
He sounds like he sucks all the joy and enjoyment out of it.
It is puzzling that you chose to marry someone who clearly has totally different values to you?

I'm sorry; I missed the bit about your daughter. I thought you hadn't yet got children.

So my husband had a shit childhood too - abuse, abandonment, addiction, genuinely horrible. He gets super anxious around all special occasions. As pp said, his behaviours are a really complex mix of reactions to trauma so - for example - if you give him a present he plunges into 'I am shit and not worthy of this present and o god I have to show enough gratitude in the correct way (whatever that means today) or someone will beat me.' What this manifests as, is a kind of stricken awkwardness that makes everyone uncomfortable. For a while, he found a lot of reasons to justify logically his running from celebrations but he eventually has started to see that it really stems back to his trauma.

Interestingly we're also a house of anti-consumerists so my feelings were similar to yours - didn't want loads of Stuff, did want to be able to celebrate him and our kids and our families without it being strained and horrible.

My DH and I are both a bit like your DH, (though neither of us had the difficult upbringing your DH did).

I agree with hassled that you could find you become more similar and find your own way and family traditions. He might not adopt yours and you might not adopt his.

I wouldn’t assume that his upbringing is the only reason for him not wanting to give or receive presents which he clearly thinks are superfluous. You could appeal to his principles and suggest buying something eco-friendly for people instead maybe?

Signs of Christmas in our home this year:
A decorated tree (our first in 5 years)
About 10 wrapped gifts from my mum, mostly for baby, no gifts to or from each other
A special bottle of wine, a Christmad pud and brandy sauce for Christmas day (maybe we will have a nice meal like a piece of salmon. Dh s veggie and only eats fish on rare occasions)
My one lonely advent calendar.

No chocolates. No special fizz. No other decorations.

This is the most festive I have managed to get him in years and I don't think it screams consumerism at all.

I know I am a grown woman with my own money so I can make my own decisions but I don't want to bring things into our home that bother my dh. If I bring home salami he will talk for hours about the farming industry, put on a horrible documentary, then send me an Internet link to how salami is carcinogenic. And then I can't enjoy it. Same with child labour in primark factories. Because he is a loving person who cares about the world we live in and the people in it. And I fell in love with him for a lot of his ways and yes I knew this was the man I was marrying. And I think that will teach our dc a lot of good things too.

I just want him to be able to enjoy the good times sometimes. Just to allow himself a little joy. The posters who have experienced something similar explain it quite well. He's not allowing himself because he doesn't know how, or doesn't think he deserves it. So I will be patient and try to slowly guide him through these traditions. A tree this year, maybe a Christmas movie next year, and so on.

op ignore other posters what you have done for xmas is in no way at all excessive, I feel like you are letting your dh control what you eat, wear and buy your daughter and that is not healthy

I have fairy lights up, a festive chalkboard, nativity scenes and a light up Santa outside. Clearly I'm a disgusting consumerist night mare.

What happens when your dd gets taken to McDonalds by a friend or starts bringing home haribo from nursery or party bags with a bit of plastic tat in or friends buy her clothes from primark or any one of the hundreds of ethically questionable shops. What happens when you need to get her a coat and a pair of shoes and money's a bit tight and you can't afford to.go vegan organic ethical cotton. He will have to relax slightly.

@liara have you never bought your child an xmas gift?? Why

His beliefs sound ethical. His commitment to living them is admirable.

His imposition of his beliefs on how you live your life - ruining your enjoyment of things he doesn't approve of - is controlling and bordering on abusive.

Iwas quite a lot like your DH.

I still am in many ways.
Hate consumerism, waste, plastic, etc etc

But there are things I learnt I had to drop otherwise DS would have ended up going without.

All my clothes pre DS were as ethical as I could get.
But they are expensive/hard to get when you live in lots of places that aren't big/arty towns.

It quickly became clear as we were quite skint, if I didn't swallow my principles at least a little bit, DS would go without shoes/coats/socks etc.

I still do my utmost best to live as ethical a life as possible.

I have to accept that there is a balance between giving DS a good, healthy life and living by rigid and strict codes of ethics.

But I also enjoy Christmas, we have gifts, nice food, decorations etc, but we don't spend loads, waste things or go overboard.

I decorate a lot of the house with holly, ivy, pine branches etc etc, all collected on country walks
Make my own wreath and stuff.
Hate plastic tat, but you can have a magical veggie, ethical christmas without stress and control.

Oh and you should never, ever feel unable to do something you want because of his beliefs.

That's abusive.

It is not for him to make over riding choices for the whole family.

As someone said upthread, what if your DC need shoes urgently and you can't afford the ethical version, would he make them go without??

My DP has been veggie for longer than me and really is very commited.
If I decided to start eating meat again it would be absolutely none of his fucking business, so long as I wasn't feeding it to him!

Ethics and principles are great and very admirable, forcing them on other people, guilting them whne they don't toe the line, or following them blindly to the detriment of the family IS NOT OK.

I get where you're coming from, OP. But you're expecting your first child, and there's nothing like parenthood for re-assessing values and creating your own family traditions. At the moment your DH's experience of childhood is his own, and the same goes for you. That's all going to change when your little one is born! You say he's enjoying the tree this year, having been resistant to getting it. Well, that's a good start. Perhaps you can start to develop tree traditions that aren't your family's, so that you're both constructing them together. E.g. this is how we decorate it, this is the box where we keep the decorations when it's all over with a couple of new ones added each year with special memories, stuff like that. With gifts, maybe as he's worried about over-consumption you can start a tradition of getting just two small things that you both have to think really hard about - one that you know each other will really want, and the other something that will make them laugh. These are just ideas, but the point is to start creating your own Christmas which next year will start to revolve around your baby.

That way you're not expecting him to be excited about what you had (which is going to be painful if he never had it), but together you're getting excited about what you're both creating.

My hubby had an awful time as a kid, like yours, and exactly the opposite of mine.

For a while it was hard, but we've been together for twenty years and I know that the childhood he wants for our kids is different from his. even in terms of gifts and Christmas trees-little things really. It is possible your dh could do with counselling.

YANBU. He mustn't be condemned to repeat the sadness.

Interesting, the upbringing reminds me of what dad told me about his. Talk it over and explain that it is important to you to have it, even though it's not strictly necessary for survival. Maybe he has to learn it from scratch, by listening to you explaining how one does enjoy for example the Christmas tree, the chocolate, cracking the nuts, listening or singing Christmas carols etc. It's a different experience when you're adult from that when you're a child, but you know both and can explain. Your DH doesn't have any personal relationship to those things more than if someone suggested you should celebrate something on, say, 6 December with flags and fireworks or dinner, festivities and candy, it would mean nothing to you, and you'd be sceptical to the idea. But ask someone from Finland and they would understand right away (especially this year, 100 year anniversary). You'll have to explain better the why and the how.

Hmm

Your DH's childhood sounds rather deprived, but I'm surprised at the assumption that "big Christmases / birthdays with a lot of presents" are the right way to live.

I had a fairly standard 70s-80s childhood probably, as far as anything is standard. Excessive amounts of church going and emphasis on ritual and etiquette I'd say. I have no genuine interest in my own birthday or Christmas whatsoever, nor in giving or receiving gifts except for giving my own children things they specifically want plus a stocking (there's nothing I find less appealing than the idea of buying or being bought "a few bits" or traditions of giving and receiving to/ from eleventy billion comfortably off distant relatives and acquaintances cards and Boots 3 for 2 offers). The sheer landfill waste and drudgery of it all is mind numbing.

Compromise as others say - his childhood sounds a bit joyless, but that doesn't mean a lot of pointless presents are the key to a happy life.

He sounds controlling.

I'm a vegetarian but i don't bang on about animal rights if dp is eating a burger. I just don't eat it myself.

No, I have never bought my child a xmas gift.

My dc have everything they need and then some - as and when they need it or really want it.

The one year they had xmas gifts was when we were spending xmas with family who live abroad. The following year we asked them if they wanted it again and they said no - they much preferred our version of xmas and they had already lost they toys they had received.

Gifts are really not necessary in our age of abundance. Investing material objects with emotional significance is a bad way of mitigating the overconsumption that is prevalent in our society, and I don't want that for my dc.

Also, I have all too often seen gifts offered as a substitute for true attention and effort, and I want to make sure I never fall into that trap. Buying them something is so much easier than taking the time to really do fun things with them, that I fear I will come to believe it is a suitable substitute, when I do not think it is.

Your update makes him sound A LOT worse than I’d previously pictured from your op tbh. Sitting you in front of the documentary is ridiculous and I say that as someone who used to be veggie and then vegan at various points in my life.

My son in law grew up in care - and it was absolutely miserable - and he struggles with our family traditions and closeness.

So he works most of Xmas - he is a taxi driver - he watches the kids open presents and pops back for Xmas dinner but leaves us all to enjoy Xmas our way

With the money he earns he takes my daughter and the kids on wonderful holidays in jan/Feb time. Something he loves doing and none of the rest of the family get involved with.

There is no right or wrong way to do this....just talk and find your own way