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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think working from home is becoming a skivers charter

233 replies

Viviennemary · 06/12/2017 18:44

Of course I know there are a lot of people who work from home very conscientiously. But it seems more and more people when they have childcare problems, house needs cleaning, traffic bad, staying in for delivery or they just need an easy day. Work from home. Anyone come across this. I know it's a bit of a risk putting this in AIBU but I just wondered.

OP posts:
Awwlookatmybabyspider · 09/12/2017 17:06

Yabu. Not being able to find good quality affordable childcare is a valid reason not an excuse for either not being able to work or working from home. We don't all live across the road from our fit and healthy mothers who can help out with the childcare.
Also what about people with anxiety who can't yes can't not won't go out.

LoverOfCake · 09/12/2017 17:16

"Yabu. Not being able to find good quality affordable childcare is a valid reason not an excuse for either not being able to work or working from home. We don't all live across the road from our fit and healthy mothers who can help out with the childcare." not being able to find childcare is not a reason to work from home. If you're looking after DC then you're not working effectively.

That being said, if you have the ability to work from home undisturbed vs working in the office undisturbed then it's possible to be just as if not more productive.

When DS was little my eXH used to work from home one day a week. This did give him the opportunity to see DS first thing, to be there for lunch/teatime etc and be guaranteed to be there at bedtime. But A, the computer was in a separate room of the house and therefore he was able to go into that room, shut the door and be working for the hours between signing in/lunchtime and after lunch/signing out,) and B, when working in the office he had a four hour round trip to get there and back and as such would leave the house at 5:30 in the morning and not get home until 7 at night meaning that he could only guarantee to sign in at a certain time and would then have to leave at a certain time, and if there were e.g. Any issues on the trains for instance he knew he would be late into the office and thus not be able to sign in at certain times (i.e. When the markets opened) or not be able to be home in time for bedtime.

But he was able to work effectively at home because there was an expectation that while he was working from home he was in fact working, not there at my beck and call or to look after ds.

Viviennemary · 09/12/2017 17:51

Exactly Loverofcake. I don't think working from home should be used to suit the convenience of those who have not put in place adequate childcare. Would it be feasible for two people that both have the option of working from home to do away with the expense of childcare altogether and take turns looking after baby when mother returns to work. Asking this because I heard it was what somebody was planning to do. Both full time.

And people usually more senior opting to work from home leaving it to the next person in command to deal with all the day to day problems in the workplace as well as doing their own work. While aforementioned person has no commute and no disturbances.

OP posts:
Trills · 09/12/2017 18:45

Planning to work from home and look after children at the same time is clearly a bad idea.

Most of us when we're talking about working from home are not talking about that at all.

But if you have an emergency and your options are
A- Taking your computer home and getting some work done while a child is napping or watching TV, and then some after they go to bed
B- Taking the whole day off, the work doesn't get done
Many employers would prefer option A.

The same two options approximately apply if you are ill, and again many employers would prefer you to do most of a day's work than none at all.

caringcarer · 09/12/2017 21:51

It is common sense that those who have over an hour commute each way will be more productive wfh with no annoying distractions. My dh occasionally wfh when he has important deadline to meet.

Blessyourheart · 09/12/2017 21:56

I am diligent. I've been on annual leave for three days. My work inbox is clear. I'll prepare a presentation tomorrow. Wfh is beneficial for me and my work; I'm happy to be flexible because I'm allowed to wfh.

Wfh doesn't suit everyone, some people really do find it isolating and unproductive. I like combining days in the office with more industrial days wfh.

Providing cover is being at work 101. It creates an us and them and makes them look inept.

PuppyMonkey · 09/12/2017 22:00

I work from home now, as I'm freelance. TBH I'm so used to it now, I find the idea of people doing the ritual of commuting into offices at 9am, staying in the office to do tasks and struggling back through the traffic at 5.30pm really weird.

Obviously there are call centres,shops, pubs, restaurants etc where staff have to be there but a lot more jobs could be done from home more efficiently imho.

Originalfoogirl · 09/12/2017 22:05

I find the only people who doubt my working from home, are people who have no self discipline and would slack off themselves.

I’m at my home desk earlier and leave far later than if I were in the office. There’s no chat, no distractions, I’m far more productive generally. If our girl is home, she knows the rules and rarely bothers me. In fact, she often helps!

It’s the way of the business world these days and the old school “must be at your desk from 8-6 or you aren’t doing anything” really should realise their work force is present but not always productive.

HopingForSomeSnow · 09/12/2017 22:18

The people who take the piss working from home are the same people who will take the piss at work; arrive late, long coffee breaks and lunch, leave early. They are easy to spot.

wineoclock1 · 09/12/2017 23:13

I worked in an office for 15 year and now WFH. I am far more productive at home than I ever was in then office as I'm not constantly chatting to colleagues. I start and finish earlier as I don't have the a commute in to London, I am less tired as I found the commute knackering, so Im 'happier and enjoy my job a lot more. If I had my own business, i would allow trusted employees to WFH, I think you get more out of staff by doing this.

Floellabumbags · 10/12/2017 01:03

My husband works in the office 2 days a week and from home 3 days a week in a Mon-Fri job. He's working right now because a wheel has come off with someone in New Zealand and he always steps up. He might have the odd hour off to watch a school play but he averages 60 hours a week and is definitely not skiving.

Otterturk · 10/12/2017 01:30

I get so much more done when I WFH. YABU.

KnightofWands · 10/12/2017 12:25

Stating the obvious, wfh versus non-wfh is only a debate about work / tasks that can be performed physically either in an office or in a home.
We have already discussed the “taking the piss” issue to death and that is really about the individual concerned rather than wfh or non-wfh.

OP’s original query is about folk doing wfh (rather than taking sick leave or a holiday) when they have a domestic issue that arises. That could be an ill child, the person is sick themselves, awaiting a delivery, or possibly just a late night.

Always provided the work gets done (or the hours caught up), wfh seems ideal and represents a good flexibility for both the employer and the person involved. The sick day / holiday alternative is a lose / lose for both – the work doesn’t get done or is delayed or needs to be dealt with by somebody else and the person involved is not really benefiting from his / her time off.

For sure, there is a need for common sense and responsibility – so try not to schedule that furniture delivery for a day when we really, really need you in the room at the office to make a major presentation to our most important client.

But, that aside, I would have no hesitation in suggesting an employee wfh to accommodate such issues. Frankly, I regard that as plain, sensible and caring management. In practice, I have found that flexibility often then works both ways: when the business is “under the cosh” to meet important deadlines, employees are much more willing to put in the extra hours, defer personal time they had planned, etc

The next stage to consider is when “unplanned” wfh seems to be happening too frequently.

If it is due to too many late nights on the town then there is an issue of whether the person is capable of doing the job. However, that same issue applies whether the person seeks to wfh the days after, takes a day off, or struggles into an office anyway but isn’t too productive when they get there. Personally, in the first instance I would sit down with the person and ask if they had any issues or problems that we could perhaps try to help with. For sure, if it is just immaturity or lack of responsibility then the employee is likely taking the piss with wfh but the much bigger issue is non-performance and that same issue would still be there if the person took leave rather than claimed wfh or wandered into the office anyway but got little done while he / she was there.

If frequent, “unplanned” wfh is happening due to personal sickness, frequent illness of a child or other relative then I would definitely be in “how can we help” mode. On occasion, I have found it is possible to restructure the overall work for the team to help. For example, move to more of a planned (and increased) wfh status for that person; direct more of the less time-sensitive work to the person; incorporating knowledge of the impact of the issue in terms of how we manage things as a team; and (with the person’s permission) explain to the rest of the team some of what the person is coping with.

I have never encountered any issues of resentment from the rest of the team – more an appreciation that the team will be looked after; a willingness to help a colleague; and perhaps also the opportunity to pick up more interesting work.

For sure, there have been occasions when the non-work demands have been such that the person has eventually migrated from a 5-day week to a 2-day week or has needed a leave of absence. Equally, this might not be possible for all roles.

However, I see wfh (and increased wfh) as a potential part of the solution that benefits employer and employee.

Finally, OP raises the question about “pre-planned” wfh with a couple of examples.

The idea of both parents doing wfh while raising their new baby actually strikes me as a great idea. The fact that both parents are there mitigates any issue of baby needing attention at an inconvenient moment. It is also going to eliminate last-minute absences etc that might otherwise arise if they were both working in offices 5 days a week. So, they have the chance to raise and bond with their child but are still as productive as ever (if not more so). Why would that ever be a bad thing?

With regard to senior staff doing wfh. I really do not agree that this is leaving less-senior staff to do their work as well their own and picking up the problems. The senior person – whether in the office, at home, on a business trip or wherever – needs to be contactable and also proactive in communicating with their team. This can often be more challenging in an office environment and less challenging over the telephone while wfh. The key issue in the office is the informal and social interactions, coupled with easy accessibility from both more senior and more junior colleagues. These interactions are all important too and do need to be fostered but (in the office) they can easily delay or derail tasks that should have higher priority. A “9-5” office environment often knocks this out of balance while a mix of wfh and planned in-office time enables balance.

If the senior person doesn't perform his / her responsibilities well while wfh then he / she likey doesn't perform them well in the office either. Its the person - not whether they are in the office, at home, in a hotel room or anywhere else.

Bubblebubblepop · 10/12/2017 12:31

*"Your options are
A- Taking your computer home and getting some work done while a child is napping or watching TV, and then some after they go to bed
B- Taking the whole day off, the work doesn't get done
Many employers would prefer option A.

The same two options approximately apply if you are ill, and again many employers would prefer you to do most of a day's work than none at all."*

I don't agree with this at all trills. I would much rather the employee takes a day's holiday then comes and does a full day's work when the situation is over. We're not that desperate to get "some" work done.

Companies who talk like that don't care about either the employees well being or their productivity.

Trills · 10/12/2017 12:39

"Companies who talk like that don't care about either the employees well being or their productivity."

I'd agree in part that if a company is pushing you to work when you are ill then they don't care.

My company trusts me to be able to decide when I am "off sick" and when I am "not up for travelling but fine to do some work from my sofa".

I think it's kinder and more trusting to allow an in-between state, rather than the model of "you are either on or off" and nothing in between. That can result in conscientious people thinking "I'm not very ill" and struggling in, spreading their germs, making themselves iller.

KnightofWands · 10/12/2017 12:45

@Bubblebubblepop. It is not about iNSISTING somebody does some wfh rather than taking a day off. If they need a day off then so be it. But its about having the wfh flexibility.

There are many, many firms out there that are "resource-constrained" where dealing with temporary increases in demand in a timely manner really means existing staff working extra hours during that period. In this case wfh (if the person wants and is willing to it) during a domestic issue is a much better option for everybody than the person being forced to take a day off.

Bubblebubblepop · 10/12/2017 13:20

If you're too sick to work you should be signed off sick. If not, you should be in the office. Unplanned last minute absence often causes problems and more work for others who are in. My last 3 companies have launched zero tolerance to the "feeling a bit poorly so I'll WFH" brigade and sickness absence improved massively in each.

JacquesHammer · 10/12/2017 13:23

If you're too sick to work you should be signed off sick. If not, you should be in the office

What a ridiculously rigid attitude. I suffer from a menstrual disorder meaning for 48 hours once a month I can pretty much not leave the house.

But I am perfectly fit to work. So what would be better? Taking two sick days per month or working from home two days per month?

I've just had an accident. As I work for myself I have been able to complete my work as normal. If I worked in an office and wasn't allowed to WFH then I would have taken 7 weeks off sick. 7 weeks I have been fully functional.

KnightofWands · 10/12/2017 13:34

@Bubblebubblepop. So, next time somebody has influenza, glandular fever, even the Black Death, but could manage to work ...they should stagger in, do the work ...and yes pass their illness on to fellow commuters, colleagues and clients in the office. Sounds like a plan!

Of course unplanned absence can cause inconvenience. Taking an entire day off (when it is not necessary) rather than wfh creates more inconvenience.

VioletDaze · 10/12/2017 13:38

If you're too sick to work you should be signed off sick. If not, you should be in the office.

How ridiculous. I gave the example earlier - I get bouts of labyrinthitis where I can't manage to travel, but am fine if I'm lying on the sofa. My previous employer was very rigid about this and as a result I averaged around 3-5 weeks sickness a year which is massive.

My next employer was much more flexible and as a result I had 2 days sickness my first year there (unrelated to labyrinthitis). The nature of my job means that my not being in the office impacts on absolutely no one, especially if I'm available immediately on phone/email, which I don't think is that unusual.

Bubblebubblepop · 10/12/2017 13:40

"@Bubblebubblepop. So, next time somebody has influenza, glandular fever, even the Black Death, but could manage to work ...they should stagger in, do the work ...and yes pass their illness on to fellow commuters, colleagues and clients in the office. Sounds like a plan!"

This would be a thick person would it?

Making reasonable adjustments for a medical condition is completely different, something I would expect to be obvious

ineedwine99 · 10/12/2017 13:48

I’m more focused at home, less noise, no phone ringing off the hook and i’m also working 7:30-6 as apposed to 9-5 so i’m available longer

Lemons1571 · 10/12/2017 14:12

Am quite interested in views on the age a child needs to be before it is acceptable to wfh with them off ill. My DS is 12, bit young to leave alone all day but I could easily get 7 hours work done. My employer doesn’t like mixing work and childcare which I find weird - they like us to take paid dependency leave - surely 7 hours of work is better than zero?

KnightofWands · 10/12/2017 14:13

@bubblebubblepop. No it would not be a thick person. It would be a person who feels forced to go into the office due to a "zero tolerance" policy because - although they can work while ill - they do not have the wfh option that would enable them to behave differently.

Similar behaviour happens all the time in jobs (where wfh is not possible because of the nature of the job) that do not provide sick-pay. The person cannot afford to lose the money by taking a sick day so they go into work anyway - and pass their illness on to other staff and clients.

Bubblebubblepop · 10/12/2017 14:16

It's not a zero tolerance policy. You're more than welcome to take a sick day