To think working from home is becoming a skivers charter

[Viviennemary]

Of course I know there are a lot of people who work from home very conscientiously. But it seems more and more people when they have childcare problems, house needs cleaning, traffic bad, staying in for delivery or they just need an easy day. Work from home. Anyone come across this. I know it's a bit of a risk putting this in AIBU but I just wondered.

I often work from home when I have childcare issues. I am generally more productive than when I'm in the office as I have FEWER interruptions.

I went shopping for 2 hrs yesterday between appointments. Work don't have a clue what I'm doing when I'm not in the office.
I hope you aren't booking those hours as hours worked though? We are also often trusted to work around other commitments, but I would never, ever book time as worked hours when I'm not working, to do so is surely a form of fraud?

I've actually worked from home for a couple of days recently as one of my kids was sick (and I didn't have any other childcare options available), which some people think is a big no-no. However, DS was prostrate on a sofa/sleeping in bed and there wasn't that much care that I was giving him apart from not sending him to school and letting him recuperate. As far as I am concerned, I could have taken the time off, but it really wouldn't have been beneficial for my employer either. They are not subsidising my staying at home with my child, instead they are not missing out on two of my working days - I was fully contactable, had a few conference calls and was responding to emails without delays. Making me take those days off, would have resulted in the colleagues' workload increasing and/or things not being done. But then I am fairly senior, know how to manage my time and work on projects rather than clocking the hours.

Book time? What are you talking about? Like I said I do what I please. I would say I average 35 hrs a week which is what I am paid for. Some I do 50 some I do 20. It's hardly fraud is it? I don't go into work and tell them when I have worked more than my contracted hours so why would I tell them when I do less? They know the score anyway. Like I say, if you know your value to the business then you don't need to justify your time as much. I made the company £500,000 last year after my costs and my support staff costs. In my opinion I am not paid enough but as I have a nice flexible work/life balance I don't push it. I've never understood people who work more hours than they need to. Strange if you ask me. My partner does that then complains "when you count the hours I work I get paid less than the minimum wage" - well don't do it then!

My old job we had to wfh 50% of the time as there weren't enough desks. I resented 'having' to wfh, although I always worked just as hard, but did find it lonely sometimes, even though we had Skype. You can't really just call someone up for a chat!

In my new job most people work in the office, although I wfh for the first time this week (in 7 months) as DD had a hospital appointment, and I found it ok as it suited me to do it and it's not going to be all the time. We don't have Skype though, which isn't great, and sometimes you just need to print something.

Oh, and it was good not to be interrupted every five minutes by my colleague with questions that she really should know the answers to by now!!

A skiver is a skiver whether they work from home, in a shop, an office, a site etc. So I don't get your point. If you're somehow facilitating a skiver in your life and that's annoying you then it's up to you to address that with either him/her, isn't it. Or look into how you can work from home, if it's envy of working lifestyle you wish you had that's pricking you

I’m finding this thread so interesting. I worked from home for 10 years, a variety of client visits then when not on site in home office. I worked all the hours under the sun, didn’t ever really switch off. Replied to emails from the moment I woke up and until bedtime (wouldn’t do that again though). I’m now in a situation where I was told I could work from home as it’s a 2 hour commute. But, you can just tell my boss doesn’t support it fully. I can’t for instance work from home on a Monday or Friday as it’ll ‘look like I’m having a long weekend’. He can’t grasp the concept of saving me 4 wasted hours in the car versus being ‘seen’. So whilst he said I can do 2 set days a week, if I have client visits on those two days I have to go into the office the other 3 set days (mon, weds, fri) therefore I can’t work from home. It’s madness. Also, when given a project by another dept I did it from home and they commented how impressive it was I got so much done..

I think that people are starting it hard to accept that they still work for "the man". And that having the degree of autonomy MB62 describes is rare.

The best place, for you to be doing your job is in the office every day (assuming you have the opportunity to) the man doesn't care about your commute- why would that make you less effective when you do it in your own time anyway?
It is, as described above, about the people coming to the desk unannounced, the junior staff needing to learn by example, the clients who call or visit the office, the last minute work that comes in needing immediate attention, the last minute changes or decisions that require face to face. If you're a manger it's about managing your own staff and their wellbeing. In person.

It is fairly job dependant, and I do work from home and allow my staff to on occasion. But having worked for companies who had an aggressive WFH policy I saw how badly it can go wrong.

I WFH every day. Work 3 hours.
Yesterday I went into the office as it was our Work xmas do in the evening and in the day we have a buffet and do secret santa.
I worked about 6 hours in total so double my normal hours but did now where near double the amount of work due to the distractions and getting pulled into other people’s work as well as the general chatting etc.

I found the comments from Airbiscuits interesting. On the one hand if somebody's WFH output is below par and they are not easily contactable then that must be a warning flag. Could be those folk are taking the piss or may be wfh is just not for them. On the other hand "not seeing you, not knowing what you are doing" struck me as negative. Surely if you are managing them you then you would make it your business to know what they are doing ...and if it appears below par then exploring how you can help them get back to par.?

If you can see somebody in the office by glancing out of your office's window it does not mean you know what they are doing. There would still be a need to walk up to them and talk with them.

Having managed similar sized teams I think the management role involves (a) proactively contacting the team members on a regular basis to check things are on track and to be aware of delays and problems (that I may be able to assist with), (b) being contactable myself, (c) fostering trust so that team members know you have their backs, will listen and will try to help.

"if someone working from home isn't working, it becomes very obvious very quickly"

This from @EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans sums it up for me.

If you can't tell whether work is being done or not, you need to work on your management.

If you can tell if work is being done or not, working from home shouldn't be a problem.

Worked from home often. Sometimes as had a special piece of work to do and felt could complete without the usual interruptions. Always had to pass by boss for approval. Also if there was something domestic e.g. boiler service would work from home. Can never understand how when child care, domestic needs etc appear overnight that folk actually have work to do not having known they would need to stay home. Some will be conscientious some will be shirkers. Good management should whittle out the skivers.

Airbiscuits sounds like an awful manager, making people redundant because they can't manage a virtual team would be grounds for a performance plan if not dismissal.

If anyone has been unfairly dismissed or made redundant because you wfh, you can make a claim to the employment tribunal within 3 months of your employment ending or the problem happening.

Even if you're working from home, you must have some sort of target to hit or something done to show for it. If you've completed everything to satisfaction then there isn't a problem. It's the same if you're in an office, perform well and there isn't an issue. I know plenty who trawl the internet and play games for much of the day when in the office. A skiver is a skiver wherever they are.

@Blessyourheart. Thinking about it, you are touching on an important issue here. There are some managers that clearly are "anti-wfh" and that stems from an intrinsic control issue as opposed to anything more concrete (i.e. the "not seeing"). There is a danger that this prejudice also overflows into compensation and folk that wfh "too much" lose out on fair merit increases, promotions simply because their manager is sub-consciously anti-wfh.

Back when I worked for a large group, the senior management team of a division would meet (once all performance reviews had been finalised) to discuss how the "pot" for salary increases should be distributed and who should be promoted. This was not simply a case of "trying to sell" the merits of your own team to the other senior managers. And I can certainly recall a couple of occasions when I have ended up challenging other managers as to why they were not making a better case (or even a case at all) for certain wfh members of their own team based on my knowledge of and interaction with their team members.

@NoMayoNo, I think you’re right about skivers being skivers wherever they are. See the bit I don’t get is I assume most modern businesses these days know exactly what you’re doing via their internal IT systems. We have internal Skype, anyone can ping me at anytime and to be unavailable would be cringeworthy- also I assume they can see what time you log on/off etc. I’d be far too paranoid either in the office or at home to take the piss! I genuinely pop on the internet only at lunchtime if it’s non work related stuff I’m doing. I have this paranoia that big brother is watching me

YABU

I work from home because it is the only way I can work and undertake the caring responsibilities that I have. I can work early in the morning and late in the evening and/or I can slot in my work around caring and supervision.

I do not know how many hours I work, but I manage to meet the deadlines that I have and ensure the work is a good standard.

There will always be people who do not 'pull their weight' wherever they work. They could be one of the 'presentee' employees in an external workplace or they could be using working from home as an excuse to do very little. However, it is unreasonable to generalise about individuals simply on the basis of the context in which they work.

I bring my own bias, I was told I had to work from home 1-2 days a week and that I would manage a virtual team after I started a new job. I made it work and now work from home part time as part of a reasonable adjustment for my post pregnancy disability. It is better for me and the business in terms of my very high work output and availability (albeit sometimes this is virtual).

Having been self employed fir a few years immediately prior to going back into employment, I agreed to wfh. There isn't sufficient office space to accommodate our workforce. A change in the executive team is bringing the culture back to bums on seats 9-5 whilst still expecting high work outputs. This meeting for meetings sake culture means people are having a long commute and then wfh for a few hours in the evening to get things done. I've told my staff not to answer emails after a certain time and that I will help them to prioritise their workload and will support or defend failure to complete tasks if this is the case.

There is a directive to have middle managers like myself in over Christmas, not one person in my line management structure (from CEO down) is in. All are off from 22 Dec to 3 Jan. If we have a hint of bad weather, I will instruct people to work from home or take leave (up to them) and will cover the office myself.

Polarbear
'Or, wacking off ' 🤣

Am amazed you ultra diligent people have time to post !

Am amazed you ultra diligent people have time to post

Tea break
Upload time
Waiting for client to send me something so it can be used immediately
Waiting for email
Waiting for conference call to begin

Etc etc etc

Oh and my hourly rate is such that I don't need to work 37 hours per week to earn more than enough

Am amazed you ultra diligent people have time to post

Um... posted at 10pm.

@Blessyourheart. Your team is lucky to have you and so is the company. Sounds like the exec doesn't deserve you or the team and is undermining the performance (and perhaps even the viability) of the business. Any opportunity for you and the team to make a move to the competition?

I am appalled that the more senior team thinks its ok to have an extended Xmas break while expecting middle management to be there. Does your company have owners / shareholders and if so do they know the senior exec appears to be becoming an expensive, redundant drain on resources and a negative influence of staff motivation and morale?