To think that many people have no idea how hard teaching is like?

[malificent7]

I have been criticised on here by some for not teaching full time as i have PGCE. The truth is it makes me ill. It is at least a 60 hour week and o cant cope with the politics, classroom management and workload.

Plus most of the contracts are short term. I am crap at ill i feel and have been managed out before.

I now teach pt and do care work pt. I am skint but happy. Aibu to not teach ft and to think many have no idea how greulling it is?

As a regulated requirement to teach maths etc. is present, the price is inelastic.

Nope. Academies do not need to employ qualified teachers. Half of all teaching posts are filled by unqualified teachers:

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/09/12/half-teaching-posts-filled-unqualified-teachers-national-audit/

Still no action being taken.

I get 25 days per year and then I’m often checking emails, doing bits of work on my holidays.

Then the people you work for are breaking the law. The minimum legal holiday requirement is 28 days:

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

I know I'm getting a lot of flack - but am happy for the current teachers to leave. It will only be then a real recruitment crisis happens that pay will increase and stronger individuals will be attracted.
Have you been into a school recently? There are LOADS of strong teachers. Where do you think this extra money is going to come from to attract stronger individuals? And what is it that you think they will do better than current staff?

As for the economic argument, sorry your wrong. As a regulated requirement to teach maths etc. is present, the price is inelastic. There may seem to be a problem, but until 20% of children are not being taught, there actually isn't a problem - then and only then will the state take the action required. At present, there is sufficient supply at the price, with minor fluctuations.
Well, apart from your obvious issues with spelling and punctuation (was your teacher an unqualified one?), your maths is also baffling. We need 20% of children to not be taught before you'd call it a problem? Seriously? So 19% of children not getting an education would be a success for you? Bizarre.

So well said ohreally.
And of course the government aren't going to pay more. What do you think the academy system is about...THEY DONT NEED TO EMPLOY QUALIFIED TEACHERS. Recruitment solved until even those unqualified realise what a hard job it is too and standards plummet and you parents complain that your DC's are not learning anything

Yes, if you can't get maths teachers, you could increase pay to attract strong candidates. OR you could hire someone who isn't a maths teacher to stand in front of the class and do as best they can.

Blink has forgotten the 2nd option exists. Schools haven't.

horsefacedhelen of course there are perks, if you want to attract the best people into a job you need perks. Have teachers said that there are not perks?

Education threads seems to consist of people getting frustrated with teachers for saying things they haven't said

horseface commuting very much depends on where you live. In a large rural county I travelled an hour each way -and two hours for a term when the only connecting main road was closed--to be the HT of a school.

Being a teacher is the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit
I wonder if gove knew the difference

I like my job and am definitely not volunteering to become a teacher but seems to me like a couple of the teachers I know overlook these massive perks.

Yes the holidays are a perk. However, teachers would not be leaving teaching in their droves unless the bad things about the job massively outweighed the perks.

Look, it's quite simple really. 20 years ago, teaching was a good job (if you were suited to it). It was pretty hard work, and kids can be difficult, but it was largely enjoyable and the holidays were great.

But now, teaching is a shit job (which is why people are scrambling over each other to leave). Many are taking lower-paid jobs or staying in schools but working as lowly cover supervisors, and breathing a massive sigh of relief at their new life. So the question is, what changed? Teachers all know what the problems are, but nobody's listening to them. Last one out, please wipe the board, put the chairs up and switch off the lights.

Oops and for two hours each day for a term when the only connecting main road was closed

So, to the teachers who are thinking of leaving what would make you want to stay I your jobs

Well we can all throw anecdotes around - I know a few people who have gone into teaching, and found it to be frankly so stress-free and simple compared to their previous roles they can't understand what there could be to complain about.

What a load of shit. If you're going to make up little stories, at least make them a little more believable ...

Erm, cheers @Eolian I'm a 'lowly cover supervisor'. I take a barrel load of shit every day for the pleasure.

Blinkhas forgotten the 2nd option exists. Schools haven't
With the best will in the world, Blink doesn't have a clue and is just trying to bait people, be argumentative and sit back feeling smug about their oh so extensive knowledge about a sector they have sod all to do with.

As i've said multiple times, I love my job. Like any job it has it's pressures and stress and pros and cons.

I would sooner leave teaching and go back to my previous career than work in some schools (and I loved working in a tough school).

The conditions and workplace environment in some schools makes recruitment very difficult (which is why those schools ahev expensive SLT and a revolving door of NQT, trainee and unqualified teachers... and their results are worse).

Blink thinks because they did some placement once and think they are some great intellectual they can single handedly solve the recruitment and retention issue thay successive governments of all persuasions have failed to do. Let them sit kidding themselves. We all know what the reality is in schools: pros and cons

after all, up to GCSE there really isn't much to teach beyond quadratic equations and 2 linear simultaneous equations

You obviously know nothing about new curriculum. Some quadratics and linear simultaneous equations now appear on foundation paper (Grade 5). Wonder what the rest of the curriculum upto grade 9 looks like?

So, to the teachers who are thinking of leaving what would make you want to stay I your jobs

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_staffroom/3085036-What-could-be-done-to-stop-the-teacher-recruitment-and-retention-crisis

actually I think the point isn't just workload. It is just that so much of the escalation in workload is POINTLESS BOLLOCKS! most of us have and always did do extra hours for school trips, conerts, rehearsals, revision sessions along with planning and marking. In get upset that the average tax payer doesn't seem to care that the publically funded state education system is being. Your child is just a piece of data, your child has to be supported/cajoled forced to meet their made up target grade or better exceed it! extra hours doing intervention classes with kids in every single subject. 're writing a 7nr curriculum rushed in by Gove to make education rigourous/elitist.

On top of issues that schools are nipping up due to cuts in Social Cate/Policing and mental health.
Coming in early or leaving late due to Social Care issues. Kid threatening suicide, gone missing, serious self harm
etc. The workload misses the point and doesn't put the child at the centre. That is what is so soup destroying about it. I'm sure every Public Sector worker feels the same.NHS, Police, Social Care, Prison service all being pushed to breaking point!

so many typos there. Sorry. I am a teacher too I love my job and don't want to do anything else. I just wish we could focus in teaching and creativity and maybe just maybe have a bit of fun with these poor overworked, stressed out kids!

So, to the teachers who are thinking of leaving what would make you want to stay I your jobs

Scrap PMR in its current guise whereby my pay directly relates to my class gaining an arbitrary number of levels (not set by me) regardless of whether they have SEN, significant emotional problems, cancer, are experiencing the fallout of their parents’ divorce or death or are self-harming.

Ban unessary duplication of information and half termly data drops, half termly book scrutinies and observations. Ban triple marking and deep marking. Ban lesson objectives and success criteria to be stuck in books. Ban sticking photos of children doing practical tasks in books (as otherwise they didn’t happen-we might have lied about the whole lesson!)

Ban levels. Or being back levels-I’m not sure which. But removing levels as they confused parents and telling schools to use their own systems was bloody ridiculous as I think parents are now even more confused.

None of those things existed when I started teaching. It’s not that we are workshy whingebags. Those of us who have taught for a long time know that children still learnt well (I would argue much better!) without all this Other Shit, so we are objecting that 95% of our time is now taken up doing stuff that never even used to exist and doesn’t help children at ALL!

Oh, and ban the government from making any curriculum or testing changes for 5 years. And 20% PPA. Though tbh, we probably wouldn’t need this if all the Other Shit was scrapped.

I would also like to do more peer reviews-that’s the most valuable thing my school ever did, but it got scrapped .

I know I'm getting a lot of flack - but am happy for the current teachers to leave. It will only be then a real recruitment crisis happens that pay will increase and stronger individuals will be attracted.

DH left teaching. While he was HOD his department achieved the best A level results in the country for a non-selective school.

He was also one of those people you think should be teachers - he had extensive experience in the 'real world' of working in the field that he then taught in.

In what way did the education system gain by losing a teacher like him, I wonder? He was - according to your criteria - very much a 'stronger individual'.

The irony is that he had been attracted into teaching partly by the fact that they were so desperate they were offering all fees paid during training, a bursary during training, and a £5,000 golden handshake after the first year of teaching. So not only did the UK education system lose a great teacher, but they wasted about £30k into the bargain.

Great system. I'm glad you think it's working.

As for the economic argument, sorry your wrong.

*you're

Oh, and ban the government from making any curriculum or testing changes for 5 years. And 20% PPA. Though tbh, we probably wouldn’t need this if all the Other Shit was scrapped
This. Shanghai teachers have more PPA time than teaching and spend lots of time on lesson review, planning together etc.
Whilst I don't like everything thry do, thr principle is good.

Scrap PMR in its current guise whereby my pay directly relates to my class gaining an arbitrary number of levels (not set by me) regardless of whether they have SEN, significant emotional problems, cancer, are experiencing the fallout of their parents’ divorce or death or are self-harming
Yes. Make a holistic judgement over all my classes because I am fed up with picking up Ks4 classes who have been neglected at ks3 because some overworked teacher has put all their time and energy into gcse because of said performance targets

For me, I'd like schools to be ran sensibly, not have inflated SLTs and to actually be ran with the wellbeing of staff in mind. Staffing is the biggest cost in schools. Having good staff and valuing them matters. More schools need to have better cultures.

Erm, cheers @Eolian I'm a 'lowly cover supervisor'.

So am I! That's precisely why I said it.

woodlands01 - rather than guessing yourself, look at the curriculum (www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-mathematics-programmes-of-study/national-curriculum-in-england-mathematics-programmes-of-study#key-stage-4).

So there may be some of what I said on the foundation paper - so what, the hardest item in Algebra is what I described. And lets face it, it's trivial maths - any teacher (whatever their main subject) should be able to do this off the top of their heads without getting anything wrong.

Back to the original topic:

• The state generally pays a premium for the same role and people.
• There isn't a lack of money in the state - all GP's and many government roles are some of the highest paid roles.
• The simple fact is that there are many people capable of being teachers - and at the moment there isn't actually a shortage able to teach. If any shortage was acute, the state would increase pay to attract better people (as the state does in other state industries)
• People are paid more in other roles because there are less people who can do them, and hence are more difficult.
• If someone in teaching can see an easier role, just take it - nothing is stopping you
• Whilst everyone agrees not everyone with good subject knowledge would be a good teacher; at the moment we have a lot of teachers without good subject knowledge - but luckily, before A-Level not a great deal is really required.

The particular challenge of being a teacher is teaching a class - I currently teach interventions so small groups and it is fantastic, but a long long way from the stress of trying to teach 30 kids so they are all making progress in each lesson and the books all look great and are marked with colour coded marking that the kids have all responded to..just the logistics of organising the resources for a full day in class is exhausting. I do the occasional day now and I know ft class teaching would surely kill me now. So I would say that class teaching in particular is way more tiring than most other jobs, just because you are trying to make it all work for so many children all day. And I agree that if you haven't done it you just don't realise.
Fwiw I know three teachers who retrained and went into it as a second career who have all left now because it was so much more stressful than their previous professional careers....

I’m not convinced that everyone knows the value of sin(60) off the top of their heads. (Foundation GCSE).

But anyway, saying GCSE is trivial doesn’t answer the question of where to get A-level teachers from.