To think that many people have no idea how hard teaching is like?

[malificent7]

I have been criticised on here by some for not teaching full time as i have PGCE. The truth is it makes me ill. It is at least a 60 hour week and o cant cope with the politics, classroom management and workload.

Plus most of the contracts are short term. I am crap at ill i feel and have been managed out before.

I now teach pt and do care work pt. I am skint but happy. Aibu to not teach ft and to think many have no idea how greulling it is?

The country can well afford to lose those teachers that quite frankly can't cut it. They should have been managed out by the poor management in most schools within 2-3 months of not being able to cope or give strong results.
You demonstrate zero understanding of assessing teacher quality but ok. You pat yourself on the back because you have all the answers.

Why do the best graduates not choose teaching? It has so much to do with the closed culture that protects poor performance.
Or because there's better pay in other areas, or because they don't want to deal with joe public deciding they're shit bevause they went to school one. Or because you know what maybe they don't actually want to teach. Or because how good your career is depends on the school. Or because if ypu get in a good school lile mine then it's awesome but end up in a toxic school and you'll find staff leave after 2 years and NQTs resign mid year because it's horrible.

Personally, I want to see someone have 15+ years experience out of teaching and prove they can cut it elsewhere and reach a high level before they could teach anyone. I'm thankful my physics and chemistry teachers did so, and then decided to teach with real enthusiasm.
Being good in another field does not make someone a good teacher.

English teachers must be experienced in publishing or journalism
Drama teachers must be esteemed actors
Psychology teachers must have years being clinical psychologists
Etc

Anyway, as mentioned lots of career teachers leave bevause they decide it's not worth it. I am the only career changer from my training year still teaching and that's because I'm in a great school.

Far from not being able to cut it elsewhere, they've been in the 'real world', moved to teaching and moved back.

You sound so clueless or blissfully unaware of so much. It's sweet.

My nephew tried to get a place at a teaching university, but despite having the entry qualifications, he was turned down by several who all cited their courses being highly oversubscribed, so it seems there's no shortage of people wanting to train to become teachers.

I'm an excellent teacher. I was successful in the UK system because a) I know my stuff, b) I rather enjoy working with teenagers, c) I was quite canny about being loudly enthusiastic about Whatever The New Shit was, turning in good observed lessons, throwing the kitchen sink at exam classes, & never being off sick.

C) is why I now get regularly begged to go back to the UK state sector.

But I looked at the grey, exhausted faces around me, looked in the mirror at my own, envisaged my own dc being taught by myself & my colleagues in full Walking Dead mode, & decided fuck this for a game of soldiers.

We are now in an international school overseas & life is peachy.

Unfortunately, it's not the most important thing if anyone thinks teachers are moaners.

What matters is that we are fucking off to greener pastures, having breakdowns & being turned out of the building, or ticking the boxes whilst actually not doing much teaching because it's not compatible with The Other Shit. In our thousands.

Even the most hawkish teacher hating 'you're all a bunch of whingeing workshy losers who couldn't do a real job' type, if they have school age dc, might benefit from recognising that increasingly those who can, either can't any more, or don't have to.

Oh & I had that magical 15 years of experience elsewhere Blink.

I left teaching in the UK because I didn't want to do it any more, & had the option not to. Just like the vast majority of my current colleagues. The world is our oyster because other countries recognise that UK teachers are generally excellent, & are very happy to poach us, pay us more, & treat us a heck of a lot better.

Badbadbunny
It depends wjat subject and which training institution.

Only history and PE met 100% allocation last year for secondary and then primary.

Some not so good courses interview early to blag trainees. The places are allpcated nationally and once they've gone, they've gone.
It's why there was.uproar at Cambridge Uni not running a history course one year because the national quota for history teachers had already been filled in my area by weaker providers worried about bums on seats

Top unis turn people away because more people apply than theu can allocate.

Some routes accept people who (in my opinion) probably shouldn't be on ITT. But that's the recruitment crisis for you.

BadBunny try looking at the graph I posted yesterday then say there's no shortage of people wanting to be teachers.

I don’t think most teachers know what it’s like to be a nurse. Or a mechanic. Or a soldier. Or an IT Consultant. There’s hard work in all jobs. YABU.

You appear to be reframing your story for the umpteenth time because you haven't as yet got the support you wanted. If I recall correctly other threads are about how it's unfair that your dad won't give you a deposit for a house even though you got an inheritance -later revealed to be £16,000 - and wasted it on expensive clothes, holidays and kittens when you weren't even in a position to get a mortgage anyway. And you were annoyed that he still begrudged lending you further sums of money.

I'm not sure we need to worry so much about the crisis in retention and recruitment of teachers. Not sure we will need teachers eventually Currently:
Local schools are without a permanent head teacher. I know of 5 being run by some sort of supply HT or inexperienced staff member.

Local schools are being closed, financially unsustainable - (6) so far this year.
Local schools have become an academy and they don't need qualified teachers anyway.
Local schools have an academy order but there isn't a trust willing to take them (financially unsustainable or too many issues) so they continue to be unable to find decent teachers and to raise standards and will close anyway
The whole system is a mess not just teacher workload.

No one ever digs put a doctor and berates them for not having 'real life' experience of teaching. Why the other way round?

Well we can all throw anecdotes around - I know a few people who have gone into teaching, and found it to be frankly so stress-free and simple compared to their previous roles they can't understand what there could be to complain about.

I tried it myself on a couple of placements, it was easy and rewarding - but didn't pay enough. So I chose to do a more difficult and stressful job that did. My choice to make - and as others have said, they can choose to move aboard or do something different - but just stop moaning - it's a basic job that many people can do, but with artificial barriers inserted in the state sector. It's notable that the top private schools don't have these barriers - but produce better results.

It's notable that the top private schools don't have these barriers - but produce better results.
It's also notable that when the new gcses came in lots of private schools opted to do thr igcse version of englihs with coursework and open book exams.
It's noticeable that the clsss sizes are smaller
Noticable that you have social selection
Noticable that tutoring culture on top of school is rife in private schools

Teaching isn't a 'basic job' otherwise there's be no recruitment or rentention issues.

I enjoy my job, work in a great school and on the whole think the level of stress is appropriate for my pay and role. (I wouldnt have said that in other schools ive worked in).

You are coming across as a GF trying to get a rise out of people.

PurpleCrowbar - and no-one will notice your gone, if there is a shortage then pay will increase and better people will just be paid more to fill your place.

I've never known a situation where the UK isn't one of the higher paying countries for talent. Anyone who has significant skill can always demand a salary that would prevent the need to move. If there are enough people of sufficient quality, then sure it could be that we don't need people who are over-qualified and can enter a more productive part of the economy.

But you can't have it both ways - there cannot be a shortage and a lack of high pay for suitable people. It's basic economics.

Definitely!

Have you ever noticed that female dominated professions tend to be the lower paid ones

That definitely was to maisy s last line

We don't need anecdotes, Blink. There is a massive recruitment and retention crisis. It matters not one bit whether you allegedly found 'a couple of placements' easy. What matters is that actual career teachers are finding bloody awful. And so they are leaving in their droves.

As for comparing with private schools... that's just not helpful. I taught in a private school for years. It's a totally different job, partly because of the lack if government interference, but also largely because of the intake.

You talk airily about 'artificial barriers' (which ones do you mean) as though we can all just choose not to have them. Teachers have no choice but to work with the system or leave.

But you can't have it both ways - there cannot be a shortage and a lack of high pay for suitable people. It's basic economics

There is a teaching shortage. Things vary by subject and area.

Decent teachers want to work in schools like mine because although they don't inflate pay, they want a strong secure workforce who can provide stability. We have low staff turnover as people only leave for retirement, to be a SAHP or promotion.

Another school down the road was offering £10,000 more than my salary for almost exactly the same job as me. They didn't recruit because money wouldn't get people like me to leave my school and work there. Thr school is propped up by teach first trainees and nqts (who are cheap).

I've known some schools have NQT+1s as head of department because they're a decent teacher and they can't attract experienced staff to that school. Every early career HOD like that I've known has subsequently burnt out or gone on maternity leave and not returned to the classroom.

Oh your comments about pay just show you know nothing about the education system at all. There is a massive shortage and no, the government isnt going to just pay everyone more. They offer money to train, still can't get enough people in the courses, plus there's a huge dropout rate and many of the rest take the money, slog through the course and decide there's no way in hell they actually want a teaching job.

It matters not one bit whether you allegedly found 'a couple of placements' easy. What matters is that actual career teachers are finding bloody awful.

Exactly. Placements aren’t comparable to the job. You aren’t teaching a full timetable. You aren’t actually responsible for the progress and well being of your students. You know it’s only temporary so if a class is tough, you know you’ve only got them for a few weeks. I’m betting you weren’t in tough schools.

MaisyPops - I may be coming over as a GF, but I and many others are fed up with teachers claiming to have a hard time. Really - the workload is minimal compared to many other roles - we all work out of hours, and we all have too much to do - if you think it's so hard, just change! Just stop moaning.

It is a fact that teachers do not earn as much as many other roles - there is a reason. Can you please stop needing your ego stroked - it is a basic job with the only legal requirement being that which almost 50% of the population have. Yes, state schools as I said have additional artificial barriers - but that's just the closed shop mentality that is a major problem.

Hah at Blink teaching a couple of 'easy' placements but then quitting because it didn't pay enough. Yeah right, like you wouldn't know about the salary before starting....

may be coming over as a GF

And an ignorant one...

I'm a teacher in an FE college and although College is closed during the hols, I do not get these holidays off!!! I get an annual leave allowance like any other job and book time off in the hols. The rest of the hols I am in work, working!!! Not everyone who teaches gets the holidays off and when they do they spend a lot of it working.

Local schools have become an academy and they don't need qualified teachers anyway

Hmmm...what does this actually mean in reality? Let me give you two real life, recent examples.

A. Woman I know who started in local primary as lunchtime assistant. She doesn’t have a degree. She would be the first person to tell you she’s not very bright. Now a TA. For 3 weeks in November she had sole charge of the year 1 class. Planning left by teacher but she delivered it. On her own, no other TA to help.

B. I had to bollock a class (and I’m supply myself!) behaving appallingly for a supply teacher just last week. Nice lady. Qualified 2 weeks earlier as a primary TA. Now working in secondary schools, in charge of your child’s education in the absence of their usual teacher.

This is the reality in thousands of schools in this country today. Sure, we can get unqualified people to do the job but at what cost? Is this what you want for your children?