Can't seem to discipline my daughter!

[TinHat17]

I'm at my wits end and would really be grateful for some advice.

I'm sure this topic is best placed elsewhere, but I'm looking for a broad range of advice and perhaps some tough love for myself.

I have three children 8, 10 and 14. The middle child (my daughter) is the one who I'm struggling with.

Very long story short. I left their dad 4 yrs ago after 17 years in an emotionally abusive relationship.

The kids were happier the moment I left. It's taken some work and hardship, but on the whole, we are better than we've ever been. I'm working, we have a lovely home and good family and friends around us.
They still maintain a relationship with their dad on an every other weekend basis.

My daughter has always been hot headed from a toddler. I have always been firm. However, she has never responded to discipline in the way my sons have. The two boys have never pushed me to my limit. They learn from their bad behaviour etc. My daughter doesn't.

She will argue back, stamp her feet, slam doors, is very selfish and will sometimes scare her younger brother.

Things I've tried

1- tell her off, warning, time out

2- speak calmly but firm, explain why I won't tolerate her behaviour and make her aware of her impact on others

3 - confiscate items

4 - ignore her until she apologises

I have been consistent with each form of discipline for a long period before trying something else.

She's had counselling, I've worked with her to overcome her anxiety (which has improved), I've been there for her emotionally as every parent should after issues with her dad. I feel I have done everything I can to ensure she isn't too emotionally damaged from mine and her dads break up.

She claims she is happier now, she has a good bond with my partner (It was a gradual introduction not forced), she said she loves homelife etc.

I don't understand then, why she is so badly behaved out of the three?!

Her teacher thinks she is as good as gold, my parents never witness this side of her. Why does she only behave like this for me?

I wonder if I need to get tougher. But if I'm honest, she spent years in an environment watching her dad verbally abusing me and shouting. I don't want to shout at her or loose it as I wanted to create a calming household when we left him. Plus, I feel guilty that I allowed my kids to witness their dads behaviour because I was too weak to leave him.

My partner has full custody of his son. So he knows first hand how tough it can be. But he has observed that I'm too soft on her. He has been nothing but supportive and has been a positive influence in our lives. We don't live together as we want to wait until our children are older. But we do spend a lot of family time together.

He never interferes or tells me how to parent, but does advise me.

My daughter is now back chatting him. I can't believe how rude she is.

I'm worried that as she approaches puberty, if I don't nail it now, she will be a nightmare to rein in.

I love her, but I don't enjoy being around her (I hope I don't give off that vibe as I always try to be positive - but it's forced) I feel guilty feeling that way

Sorry it's long. Just wanted to add all the relevant info.

Please help!

I've got dds and they are all very strong willed. I also have 3 DBS, dm said she would rather have another 3 DS than another dd (me). I was very strong willed, I can remember dm saying wait till you have kids, now I am getting back what I dished out 3 fold. It does get worse with puberty, I haven't got any advice for you as I am struggling with my own dds. My parents were overly strict with me to try and get me to tow the line which made me rebel, I have been less strict with my dds they haven't rebelled as such but I do find it hard to walk away sometimes knowing I have let them get away with giving me attitude, pick your battles sort of thing. Just waiting for the 9yr old to start kicking off next.

dd was awful as a toddler too. Looking back I can see she was what you might call "sensitive" and that translates into a lot of sensory issues, although she is as far as I know, NT in almost everything else. So what to us was a touch felt like a shove, what to us was a delicious meal beautifully prepared was disgusting and slimy. what to us was a sensible admonition felt to her like someone was screaming at her. I think this kind of sensitivity does follow trauma, in dd's case she had severe reflux as a baby, and she had to share me with her twin brother who had SNs (it turned out, but he was demanding as a baby/toddler) and her toddler brother only 23 months older. Lots of hugs have been important to dd, lots of blankets and cuddly objects, foot massages etc, chewing, sucking drinks, I could go on.... Out of Synch Child is a good book for that sort of information.

I am so sorry you and your daughter have had to go through the trauma you did with ex, you must have both been through a lot together

Dd also did a lot of backchatting. These seems a familiar refrain from most of my friends about their daughters. We have divided into the parents who call them out on it, and those who ignore. Essentially both sets of parents got through it, but the ignoring ones had less work than the ones who said, what did you just say? , and the escalation that followed..

Ds saw a counsellor at one point when she was 9, person centred therapy. It had an amazing effect on her morale. Just 4 sessions.

TBH I think you may be better off taking her to a professional.

Glad someone mentioned PDA, not because I think your DD is on the spectrum, but because PDA is kind of the extreme end of this sort of behaviour. The fact that she's good as gold at school is rather telling. It's classic that a kid who struggles with demands works so hard at it at school where the consequences are worse that when they come home they're foul because they're somewhere they're safe to behave badly without worrying they'll be rejected/thrown out. Think that book might be useful.

Summarising again until I can sit down later and read through properly.

Just to clarify, I am very loving towards her. We hug, I always tell her I love her, I praise her and always try to build her up. I do not favour my sons but I do find them easier. So there is the difference. Like I said, I 'hope' that she doesn't pick up on that and I will certainly be more mindful in case that is the case.

I would never say my discipline is intentionally cruel. The ignoring is simply when I've exhausted all options and I can see that she is feeding off the attention (good or bad). If I had the answers, I wouldn't be posting here. I do value everyone's advice and opinions. But I obviously would like to highlight the fact that I'm a very warm and giving parent to all three of my kids. But my daughters behaviour doesn't seem to reflect that. Which is why I'm at a loss.

I've pushed for counselling for her, art therapy etc because I love her and I want to ensure that she enters adulthood without being mixed up and scarred by her early childhood with her dad.

If she hurts her brother, what message am I sending him if I don't discipline her accordingly? I've been told I'm too soft with her (because of what she's been through). So I can't accept comments that I'm being unfair in that respect

It's hard because you feel guilty, my eldest dd has been the hardest but she's the one who saw all the fighting between me and her DF, I left when she was 7, dd2 was younger and dd 3 has never lived with me and her DF, shes the one who's got a close relationship with him and is very balanced emotionally. It has definitely had a massive effect on dd1 so that mixed with teenage angst and hormones has been rough.

Have a look at ODD

Also look at vitamin D tablets

Ignoring probably works best in bad behavioir but you need the boys onboard for it to work properly

1. You keep mentioning her younger brother as if there is a huge age gap and he needs to be protected from her. He is 8 and your dd is 10, that’s 2 years difference at most. STOP relating them as if your ds needs to be protected from his sister and start thinking more objectively - what is your yougest doing to make things worse with a girl currently going through huge hormonal changes (10 is when it starts) on top of all the shit that has happened with your ex? Are you being truly objective here or blind to your favourite kids faults?

1. Your dd is your only daughter and she has an abusive dad. She should be closer to you then she is, and you have to facilitate his. This means girly time with just her - sounds like you are not there for the good stuff and just for the disciplining, which is wrong.

1. Do not ever allow your partner to make comments about you being too soft with your kids. They are your kids and they are your priority - never let a man dictate to you in this space. Are you sure you haven’t moved from one abusive partner to another? Making comments like this when you aren’t even living together is a red flag.

1. You need counselling. Probably not what you want to hear but it’s not normal to label your daughter as a troublemaker since she was a toddler. Sounds like you are using her as a scapegoat for your abusive past and you need help to fix this

She sounds like my eldest dd tbh, bloody hard work, and that's without a nasty, manipulative ex husband. I was always strict and always consistent with her but she never really changed, she is grown up now and can still be moody, competitive and generally difficult if she doesn't get her own way. On the plus side she did well in school and college and is set for a good career. I can only advise that you keep doing what you are doing, the only punishment that worked with my dd was to take her phone from her when she got too obnoxious. Sorry I can't be more help, I just wanted you to know that there are other parents struggling with similar issues through no fault of their own.

Raving - she is a big and mature 10. My son is a tiny and emotionally young 8. He has autism. So yes, against her personality and size he feels vulnerable.

Saying they're my favourite kids is just goady considering I've mentioned numerous times I don't have favourites and that I came here for advice on how to improve things

A million percent not in another absusivr relationship. We work as a team and he is a support to me and us

Raving- I have had counselling- thanks.

Never labelled her a 'trouble maker'. I was being factual

Thanks dead ringer. Glad to hear it's improving! I've tried positive reinforcement but it holds no water. Taking her phone works as a quick fix but I hate that we have to always get to that point

I'm going to explore some other ideas. It may be that she is on the spectrum. I can't understand when my parenting has been the same throughout with all children

Thank you for some good advice

OP I guarantee that DD has picked up on your true feelings about her.

It is a reflection of the issues that got you into an abusive relationship in the first place - women are second class citizens. Men are to be treated as kings in comparison. You can deny it all you want but that's the undertone and that's why you have labelled her "difficult" for most of her life.

It's worrying to hear you think the behaviour of a toddler is in any way comparable to the behaviour of a 10 year old. They are completely different developmental stages and require completely different parenting approaches.

I always tell her I love her,

But you don’t show her that. Words are cheap.

I think it's very harsh to assume that the op prefers her sons. As I say I had a lot of these issues with my eldest dd, I adored her, (still do) and in no way make or form did I favour her siblings( boy and 3 other girls). But I definitely found them easier. I think there is a bit of projection going on here and a lot of assumptions being made. Yes this kid has had it tough, but some children are just tricky. My dd has no sn and there is no history of abuse in our background, my dh and I have been together 30 years in a very stable marriage and yet my dd sounds very much like the ops.

'my parenting has been the same throughout with all children'

But they are different children with different experiences. Parent the child you have.

Try not to confuse being permissive and being soft on boundaries. And I don't mean punishments, when I say boundaries.

If she hits her weaker brother, don't leave them alone together, and stop her from doing so, without shame or punishment.

TBH that should have been happening since she was tiny.

I also have a difficult DD (8) with a little sister who is easier to manage. They're both adopted but birth siblings. I do love them the same, but I find DD1 very hard work. She has Attachment Disorder and has full-on meltdowns and can lash out at her sister, and I do give her a consequence whenever she does that. And DD2 is much smaller so seems more vulnerable. But she teases DD1 regularly, and then is very good at complaining loudly when DD1 reacts badly.

So who of the two of them is most to blame? Obviously I have to protect DD2 as she is smaller, and separate them when things get heated. But it's never the case that it's all DD1's fault and that DD2 is the innocent victim. She's bright and can run rings around her sister.

Sometimes I find that after school I'm forever telling DD1 off for something. I imagine it can feel that way for you, OP. What I find is that my DD1 looks for negative attention because it's what she's expecting. I'm trying to change the way I respond to her. Maybe you need to think about ways you can respond differently to your DD.

Three things stood out to me.

You say she ignores adults and you said I ignore her until she apoligises. She is learning to ignore from you. Ignoring someone is like sulking and it's not nice to live with someone who gives you the silent treatment.

He observed I am too soft on her. Then you say He never interferes or tells me how to parent, but does advise me. What is it, he isn't interfering and telling you how to parent, telling you you are too soft on her, but he is advising you. Sounds like he is interfering and your DD might now beginning to resent him, hence she is ignoring him.

It might help to have time just with your DD with out the judgement of your boyfriend. It does sound as your DD is unhappy at home, whatever she has told you. She is well behaved at school and in front of her grandparents. Could your spend time just with your DD. Having three children, being a single parent, working and having a boyfriend might mean your DD is not getting the attention she needs.

Just seen that your younger son is autistic.
Have you looked up PDA?
A child is more likely to be autistic if they have autistic siblings.
PDA is easily missed as it presents differently, plus girls can present more subtly than boys.
She's 10, you're having consistent problems with her, PDA strategies really could help her.

Your dd sounds very much like my youngest dd. She controls her behaviour in school, but releases, relaxes whatever you want to call it at home. She has always been hardwork, constantly crying as a baby, grumpy toddler, not wanting cuddles etc, screaming the house down for very little reason.

We've tried naughty step, taking things away, looking for positive behaviour and rewarding that, sticker charts, etc etc. It got so bad, that she threatened her older ds with a knife. I took her to the docs and she was referred to Early Help, which worked for a period of time, but has since got a lot worse. She has severe anger issues, cannot accept being told no, or not yet. will scream, rage, shout abuse just to get her own way. I choose my battles, not every single one is worth a meltdown. I have spoken to the gp, senco and trying to get her referred again.

She can be very loving, I love her so much, and ultimately want her to be happy.