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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think pregnant women shouldn't be filmed during scans without expressly giving consent?

103 replies

Greypaw · 29/11/2017 13:38

It's come to light that cameras were installed in a maternity unit in Cambridge and women were filmed while having scans without explicitly having been told it was happening. It seems this was because the film company was making a documentary about stillbirths and were hoping to catch people at the moment of being told their baby had died. At that point they would be told they had been filmed and permission would be sought to use the footage.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-horror-after-hospital-secretly-11606165

I understand it's important to raise awareness about stillbirth, but surely a note next to a camera isn't adequate when it comes to consenting to being filmed at a time you'd assumed would be private?

OP posts:
TabbyMumz · 27/12/2017 21:58

Absolutely shocking when you think about the number of patients that would have been filmed having internal scans so all would be on show.

RavingRoo · 27/12/2017 22:01

If I had been asked for permission after a still birth heads would have literally rolled. The doctors and nurses who allowed this should all be sacked - it’s a horrific breach of trust, and exploits grief.

Cordroythisandthat · 27/12/2017 22:02

How much ££££££££££££££££ did the hospital get for this disgusting film project?

EmilyfromLondon · 27/12/2017 22:07

How much ££££££££££££££££ did the hospital get for this disgusting film project?
Well, the production company will be paying for all the legal costs, and any costs should anyone sue as it will be in the contract between the hospital and production company. The hospital cannot lose out financially - perhaps in reputation. I bet the GMC and NMC won't get involved - they'll receive brown envelopes to keep their noses out I expect

sycamore54321 · 27/12/2017 22:15

This is truly horrifying and I am stunned that any organisation with the smallest sense of issues like consent, privacy and data protection ever signed off on it.

This isn't being filmed in a semi-public place, like the lecture hall example given earlier. I remember a thread on here where posters were outraged that a pregnant woman had her blood pressure taken and a Doppler foetal heartbeat check while in a waiting room - rightly so as it was an enormous invasion of privacy to be given medical attention in a public place like that. This goes so far beyond that scenario. It is awful. I would be stunned if consent can be implied by a notice in a waiting room - when the very purpose of your visit is urgent, specialised medical attention. It's not like they are filming in Aldi and you can just choose to go to Lidl instead if you don't like it. You are there either because of an appointment to be at that place at that time, or because of an emergency medical need. In neither case should the fact you turn up for medical treatment be taken to equal agreeing to allow your treatment be filmed. Even if nobody ever views it, it is a horrid breach of privacy. And if organisations like the bloody CIA can be hacked, then I'd be damn surprised that a cheap TV company can claim it has the capacity to guarantee that the footage won't be seen.

It gets worse that the "interesting cases" will be identified to the TV company to allow them then to seek consent. How? Passing on a patient's name and contact details? Passing on an outline of their condition and diagnosis? Even the fact that a person attended for an appointment is private information that should never be disclosed to a third party. This is invasive and wrong, wrong, wrong.

Just imagine it was done with smear test or prostrate screening. It's not even half as bad since the results are not communicated to you there and then, but imagine someone filming you, with only a half-hearted mealy-worded sign to tell you about it.

What languages are the signs in? What about visually impaired women? Foreign women? Women with literacy problems? Don't they deserve the chance to access the information too? What about the cases where women are brought directly to the scanning room without sitting in a waiting room long enough to notice a sign?

If everyone involved thought this was a perfectly fine way to do business, there would be no misleading signs, no instructions to staff not to raise the issue unless asked, no smoke and mirrors. It's absolutely shameful behaviour on behalf of all involved and I would be very surprised if it isn't outright illegal. I would love to see a court adjudicate on this but hey, the legal aid budget has been trimmed again...

43percentburnt · 27/12/2017 22:16

Sadly consent appears to be regularly forgotten in NHS maternity departments. Cannot imagine this being allowed in another ward.

AdiosPeaceOfRoast · 27/12/2017 22:22

Everything Sycamore said.

HappyAndRelaxed · 27/12/2017 22:23

That's disgraceful.

EmilyfromLondon · 27/12/2017 22:26

I would be very surprised if it isn't outright illegal.
I think they looked at every angle, and worked out how to do it without breaking any laws. It seems very deliberately designed to be as covert as it can be without actually being technically covert

Spikeyball · 27/12/2017 22:28

When I had my stillbirth I was already in labour. I was in no state to notice any signs.

EmilyfromLondon · 27/12/2017 22:28

Sadly consent appears to be regularly forgotten in NHS maternity departments.
I think consent is something the NHS wishes didn't exist, as it just gets in the way of them treating everybody how they want

AdiosPeaceOfRoast · 28/12/2017 10:08

Yes, not so much forgotten as disregarded as it’s inconvenient to ask for consent when you think you’re always right, and the patient wrong,

Elephantgrey · 28/12/2017 10:42

My husband was filmed for 24 hours in A and E when he was unconscious. They asked him if they could use the footage and he was upset for months aftwards that someone had the footage of him. They couldn't show it on TV without his consent but it is still a violation.

The idea that they are filming all the time waiting for babies to die is appalling. I wonder if they have approched anyone and if they did how did they react. It's the sort of situation where people are most vulnerable and least able to give informed consent. If someone was doing medical research into the causes of still birth the NHS ethics committee would never let them get away with this. Why are there standards for putting people on to so low.

CaoNiMa · 28/12/2017 10:51

This is despicable.

We really have turned into the society of the spectacle. Where will it end?

Time4adrink · 28/12/2017 11:37

The poster shown in the OP’s link clearly states ‘no mums or visitors will be filmed without permission’. This is a blatant lie ... what they actually mean is that no film will be broadcast without permission. And to pretend that no one will view the film if there is no consent is ludicrous. Someone in the production team will need to view it in order to edit it out.
This is absolutely disgusting behaviour by the hospital and I cannot begin to understand how any ethics committee would have agreed to this. It is totally unacceptable to film a women in a state of undress and during a private medical appointment and ask for her permission afterwards. I hope that this documentary never sees the light of day.

EmilyfromLondon · 28/12/2017 17:25

My husband was filmed for 24 hours in A and E when he was unconscious.
Did he take it any further? Unfortunately, we all rely on those who have actually been abused by the NHS to take action in order to protect the rest of us

CannotBeBothered01 · 29/08/2021 14:15

True Vision Productions got its £120k fine for this reduced to £20k on appeal
www.5rb.com/case/true-vision-productions-ltd-v-information-commissioner/
Still shocking that the hospital got off scott free for allowing it, and staff who didn't actively bring it to the attention of parents should be struck off their professional registers

toystoyseverywhere · 29/08/2021 18:31

The moment where you're told about your baby is absolutely beyond any emotion and pain and breaking I've ever experienced at all.

The very idea that someone would be watching and waiting ready to pounce on facial expressions and the way your world has just crumbled apart is completely warped and vile.

To put it mildly.

Maternity care is not for entertainment particularly when it comes to this. Sick individuals behind this idea.

KatieB55 · 29/08/2021 19:00

Similar experience with 24hr in A&E. I hadn't noticed cameras on ceiling. Relative had collapsed by door & there were no trolleys, it was all quite traumatic. Lady with clipboard then asked if they could use the footage and film consultation. I was furious and asked for any footage to be deleted.

user1471462428 · 29/08/2021 19:03

I’ve lost a child and I’m also a HCP. If I was told there were cameras recording my patients darkest hours without their express written consent and full verbal explanation from the production company I’d quite frankly smash the fucking cameras off the wall. The HCP ‘s working on that unit should have threatened to walk out till they switched it. If they didn’t they should be questioning whether they’re in right profession.

WhenwillSleephappen · 29/08/2021 20:07

This is horrific. I just can’t imagine asking someone at these awful moments in their lives (whether stillbirth or A&E) if I could use their footage. And I would feel so angry and sick if I found someone filming me in these moments.

I’m glad they’ve been fined. I don’t think £20,000 is enough though. Shame on hospitals for letting this happen.

Coop80 · 30/08/2021 09:52

Zombie thread alert!

youdoyoutoday · 30/08/2021 14:14

That's a real low level of grimness, watching a mother be told her unborn child is dead..... whoever thought of this should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 30/08/2021 14:19

I really hate these medical programmes that gain consent when people are at their lowest.

Women need absolute autonomy during pregnancy, and deserve space, privacy and respect when receiving the most devastating of news. Not to be told "we reviewed the footage of you receiving the worst news a person can receive, fancy your worst moment being shown on the TV?"

Absolutely disgusting.

3cats4poniesandababy · 30/08/2021 14:22

I gave birth at the rosie and tbh based upon my experience of the shocking care standards in the birthing unit this, sadly, doesn't surprise me.

Fine do a documentary on stillbirths but to film parent being told this wheb the parents are not told they ar ebeubg filmed is disgusting.

If I saw that sign I would think they mean accidentally filmed me walking down tge corridor behind someone who was involved not filming my private medical appointment without my knowledge