To think pregnant women shouldn't be filmed during scans without expressly giving consent?

[Greypaw]

It's come to light that cameras were installed in a maternity unit in Cambridge and women were filmed while having scans without explicitly having been told it was happening. It seems this was because the film company was making a documentary about stillbirths and were hoping to catch people at the moment of being told their baby had died. At that point they would be told they had been filmed and permission would be sought to use the footage.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-horror-after-hospital-secretly-11606165

I understand it's important to raise awareness about stillbirth, but surely a note next to a camera isn't adequate when it comes to consenting to being filmed at a time you'd assumed would be private?

Well it’s a disgusting idea for a programme to be frank but still not sure of the facts

I cannot believe the hospital would film women without their express consent sorry but just don’t believe this as lawyers would be all over it and they would be facing assault charges.

Well I would sue them then op.

That's absolutely disgusting. Of course stillbirth shouldn't be hidden away and should be talked about because it may help others but showing a mothers (or for that matter fathers) face at the moment that they're told such awful news is not going to help anyway. It's complete exploitation.

I think a general sign probably is legally all you need to film people - that's what we do for the students when we film lectures, for instance. Which doesn't change the fact that this is completely morally wrong in this particular case.

I also can't really imagine what they thought showing the exact moment would add over the more usual option having a bereaved parent talk about it in retrospect.

But still nobody has done anything wrong?!?! Nobody has been filmed without consent!! If people had been filmed without consent THEN it is an issue. As for the subject of why the cameras are there, you are all aware of shows such as 24 Hours in A&E, Ambulance, 999 What’s Your Emergency, 24 Hours in Police Custody? It’s exactly the same principle.

On a totally ironic side note, seeing as it should be is the issue of consent that is important here, spare a thought for those staff that will have cameras shoved in their faces whilst turning up/leaving shifts tonight and over the next few days and appearing on the rags and on TV without their consent being given because once again, there’s another over-sensationalised piece about the NHS in the news

People were filmed without consent, then asked for their consent.

Its disgraceful, the hospital should not have gone along with it. Why do we need to see people being told their baby has died?

I attended this clinic a few times with my recent pregnancy (turned out fine,baby arrived safely a few weeks ago)
It's where you'd go for reduced movement/bleeding/pre eclampsia symptoms. Everything and anything really.

The cameras were in the corner of the room like circular cctv ones. There was a sign next to it, A4 sized.

Whenever I went in there I would just stare at the camera thinking it was awful that I was being filmed right then and there, while I waiting to see if everything was ok with my baby. It's a worrying time while you're waiting to hear what a doctor will say, I hated thinking, 'well if something isn't ok, I might end up being asked to be part of some sort of documentary'

It didn't feel right and I'm glad they've been made to realise that it just isn't ok to do this.

People were filmed without consent, then asked for their consent.

Link?

Actually, it sounds like people HAVE been filmed without consent. A hospital spokesman has said “The cameras are always rolling, but the footage can only be viewed with the patient’s express consent”, which implies that consent is NOT expressly sought before filming, contrary to the notice.

I’m disgusted with the Rosie for allowing this - all three of my children were born there and I have had nothing but praise for them, but there is no defending this.

I have had a stillbirth. Mine was a cord prolapse, but I'm fairly sure that the moment when you are told that your baby is dead is the same.
I can't imagine how the conversation would go when a woman is told that the most painful and vulnerable moment of her life had been filmed and could they please broadcast it to the nation? There isn't really anything that can make the loss of a baby better, but there are lots of things that can make it so much worse. This is one of those things.

How truly terrible. They should be expressly telling women about the cameras, not hoping they don't notice so the tv company gets footage. The whole thing is disgusting. Interviewing parents after the fact would be revealing and upsetting enough - we don't need to see their real life 'as it happens' reactions. Everyone involved should very ashamed.

And I hope other people are blurred out in their entirety, not just faces. It is quite possible to recognise someone from their body shape, clothes or way of walking. All patients and visitors have an expectation of privacy - you might expect to be recorded on cctv, or on a rare occasion bump into to someone you know, but nor broadcast on tv. Its all veyr exploitative.

I interpreted the article to say that Channel 4 was recording, but would kindly pixellate people's faces in post production if permission wasn't granted.

I would be deeply upset if my grief, however pixilated, was broadcast for despair vultures to watch and to rub their nipples over.

What the fuck?!

and to schlimbesserung and everyone affected by still birth. I can barely imagine how terribly heartbreaking it must be.

A hospital spokesman has said “The cameras are always rolling, but the footage can only be viewed with the patient’s express consent”, which implies that consent is NOT expressly sought before filming, contrary to the notice.

I’m thinking this is a technicality issue. Does it still count as “filming” if the film is never viewed and is then deleted. I would say it is, but from a legal standpoint, the signs were put up which warn of cameras filming and that someone might appear on film without having given consent. That’s as much as they have to do.

I was told my son had died at 36+4 weeks and while I fully support the need for sensitive information and documentaries on the subject, the thought that people could be filmed without their knowledge sickens me.

The moment I was told he had died is the worst single moment of life but I would not want that particular moment shared with anyone other than my family.

Sorry, don't know where 'and' came from, posted too soon. I meant to say this is a shocking disgrace.

That could be right hampton Surely they cannot stoop so low as to broadcast women's bodies but with just pixelated faces!?? That is just too much.

Morally it’s an issue of course, especially if the cameras were rolling the whole time although it’s still not clear. Very much so!

@PinkyBlunder

The comments from the spokesman, documentary crew, clinical lead etc never say that consent was obtained prior to filming, quoted here:

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/rosie-hospital-documentary-miscarriage-camera-13969514

But they say that express consent is sought if they wanted to use or view the footage.

I think, as a pp said, it’s a technicality - filming takes place all the time, but is automatically wiped if the tv crew are not informed of an event which would make the couple of interest to the documentary (ie a stillbirth or complication).

Did you read about it properly OP?

The title and your post seem at odds with everything else written.

Yes, the women were filmed without their specific consent, but the footage only to be used if consent was gained.

Disgusting, and the powers that be at the hospital are still defending it saying it's ok. For a grubby entertainment programme dressed up as a documentary.

The production company and Dr Cuntychops will probably escape any direct opprobrium from parents beyond some angry tweets.

NHS receptionists, midwives and the scanning operatives however...I would be very concerned about physical backlash if I was one.

Unplug - I would bet on it.

Emotive subject + rubbernecking viewers + amoral advertisers = big cash for production companies.

The only way to hurt these companies is not to watch the programme. At all. Then advertising revenue will drop off etc.

I fear if it is a success, where is the line?

A hospital spokesman has said “The cameras are always rolling, but the footage can only be viewed with the patient’s express consent”, which implies that consent is NOT expressly sought before filming, contrary to the notice.

How do they know who to ask consent from? Does that mean the hospital ask the consent for them - which is not a good use of NHS staff time - or do the staff pass on information to the tv people? "11am appointment is one to ask..."

If they ask people before the appointment then that's also not good imo. Before my first mmc I might have been very blaze and been happy for my happy scan moment to be filmed. I had no fucking clue how I was about to feel.

It wouldn't be proper consent (imo) if it was given before, and it would be completely inappropriate to ask after - so how is this done?