Measles in 2017

[Beansonapost]

Just saw a tweet by NHS about outbreaks in Leeds and Liverpool ...in people who haven't had the MMR vaccine.

Why is this happening in 2017 Britain?

I know why, but why?!!! I just can't get my head around the no vaccine logic 😐?

I'm worried about my 8 month old and the rest of the population who are immuno compromised ... I grew up in a "third world country" and the last I heard of measles was in the 90s. Chicken pox is still a fairly common illness there, but not measles. Vaccines are non-negotiable and all children must be before entering school... as a "third world country" resources aren't there to manage an outbreak of any sort, hence the policy.

Is this a developed country problem? Or is it that we've forgotten what these diseases are really like?

I don't know whether the people in Liverpool are Roma, but I thought the problems in Romania and Italy were more due to a drop in the uptake of immunisation because of things like poorly informed celebrities speaking out against vaccines?

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/measles-deaths-europe-outbreak-vaccination-mmr-who-unacceptably-tragedy-italy-romania-mmr-anti-a7836581.html%3famp

Fucking hell, the "celebrity" that spoke against vaccines used to have a health show.

I agree that vaccines should be mandatory for people who can have them.

One case at least was in a baby too young yet for MMR.

Imagine if you said to parents in a third world country that here we get the vaccines that stop many children getting those diseases - and we don't pay for them (other than by paying tax, but we'd be paying that anyway!) - but some people turn them down because they don't think the diseases are that bad.

They'd think you were nuts.

User - yep and it's babies like that who need other people to have the jabs more than anyone!

Measles is a horrible illness. I had it when I was about 7 and remember being very very poorly. Had had to lie in a dark room, curtains closed no lights or tv on. Its the most poorly I can ever remember being as a child. Both of mine have had every vaccine they have ever been offered. We even have the flu vaccine. Both myself and dh are teachers and it makes me quite cross that parents can send there children in to school unvaccinated. Unless they have a very good medical reason for not doing so o think it is very selfish and they are potentially putting others (eg those with weakened immune systems, those allergic to penicillin etc) at risk.

I spent my second pregnancy not immune to rubella.

I should have been immune. I had rubella as an 8 year old. I had the vaccination at 11. I was tested at 29 before ttcing dd. I was tested at 30 whilst pregnant with dd.

And then at 33 I got pregnant with ds and discovered I was not immune. It was sodding terrifying.

I wasn't immune in pregnancy either despite having a booster. Still not immune now even though I had another booster after having DS . The nurse suggested I should just give up .

I've just had dd2 (2) vaccinated against Chicken Pox. That's another one where everyone just thinks it's a 'childhood illness' that can be prevented.

I've not commented to turn t into a fucking debate. My child is too young for MMR but I'm getting her in early for it this week as outbreak in my area.

Cheshire My dd’s rainbow leader has apparently had chicken pox more than 30 times as she is resistant to becoming immune to it.

Personally I would see that as a sign that running rainbows, brownies and Sunday school isn’t for me but she seems to like small annoying people en masse!

nearly250parkruns

The measles vaccine was introduced in the uk in 1968. I am 55 and remember queuing at school for it, but was not allo to have it because my sister had febrile convulsions. We both caught measles not long after.

DS1 and DS2 both had all the vaccines, no issues. DS3 though, every time he was vaccinated, he ended up in Childrens A&E with convulsions.

I asked for the single vaccines for DS3, due to the convulsions, but was told I was paranoid and refused. He was eventually vaccinated before school, MMR, but much older when his immume system could cope.

I was vaccinated and had measles, mumps, german measles (where I was delusional)

He was still very, very ill after the vaccines, even though he didn't know why they didn't happen at the start.

Modre single vaccines would just mean you would put him at risk of convulsions 3 times as many times. My ds had over 20 FC until he was 13, dd had 4 in a year, so i know what its like.

Modre and that's exactly why vaccines shouldn't be optional as then your DS would have been just fine relying on herd immunity.
Sounds tough and I don't envy you.

I refused the whooping cough vaccine because it has the tetanus one included and I can't have that. The nurse pretty much refused any discussion for whatever reason. It was really stressful when DS was a newborn as there was a whopping cough outbreak and he wasn't immune.

There have been a good few cases of measles here in Ireland lately. Also babies here are vaccinated with the BCG at 12 weeks old There has been no BCG vaccine available since 2015. Except for Roma as apparently they gave higher TB rates.

Someone upthread mentioned about having specially trained ppl talk to anti vaxxers during an outbreak to convince them their kids should be vaccinated.

As such a specially trained person who unfortunately has dealt with hundreds of cases of measles in her career, I can assure you that I have invested hours and hours in this activity and it is infuriatingly futile.

In my (vast) experience, it is mostly babies who unfortunately most at risk. Their parents may have every intention of getting them vaccinated, but it only takes one kid with measles to start an outbreak. Also there will be some who get it who have had 1 dose MMR. Each case of measles normally passes it on to 12 more.

And yes, vaccination levels are high in Liverpool and Leeds, but if 95% are vaccinated (which is the herd immunity target), there will still be THOUSANDS who are not. This is especially the case with the "Wakefield" cohort who weren't vaccinated as children and are now going off to uni/having babies of their own.

So, there will be lots of people in the community who are susceptible unfortunately. Yes some of them will be people who have moved to the UK and may have different vaccination schedules/challenges in accessing vaccines in their home countries. However IMO the problem lies closer to home.

The NHS puts a lot of resource into this, and there are lots of things that can and are being done about catch up campaigns / reaching out to specific groups who have low uptake. But, it's hard. I'd say nigh on impossible to convince an anti vaxxer that they're wrong. I'll always try but I've yet to be successful, and I'm good at my job!

Someone also mentioned health care workers having to have health screening checks before they start work in UK. That's definitely a thing over here and may include a chest X-ray if they come from a country where TB is more prevalent

Thanks to a greater knowledge of how diseases are spread, and changes in our understanding of the importance of good nutrition, hygiene and cleanliness, cases of polio and smallpox had diminished to a staggeringly significant amount before the introduction of the polio and smallpox vaccinations. Odd how you don't really hear much about that though.

MadameEdam
Links please

MadameEdam because it's irrelevant. Smallpox and polio may have decreased but vaccination allowed them to be completely eradicated. Hygiene and medicine alone will never do that. As soon as vaccination levels fall disease comes back (eg whooping cough in the 70s and measles in the 90s)
There are some very misleading graphs around that try to claim diseases were declining much quicker than they really were too. The raw data paints a very different picture

I had all the vaccinations when I was a child but they tested me when I was pregnant cos they said they found out it didn't work with everyone and I wasn't immune. They said they'd give me another one after I'd given birth but it never happened. Perhaps I should contact them

Hygiene actually made polio worse. The symptoms get worse as a child gets older, as hygiene got better the average age of polio got later which was when they started to get the children needing iron lungs and leg braces.

Smallpox was a mixture of vaccine and quarantine. Smallpox can only be spread by face to face contact when the spots are active. By quarantining anyone with spots and vaccinating everyone in a certain radius they manage to limit epidemics and eventually eliminate it

Purple I was in a similar position and given the first dose of the MMR whilst still in hospital with ds. Went for the second 4 weeks later.

Worth contacting your GP even if you are not planning any more pregnancies (as no contraception is 100% and rubella in pregnancy is horrific).

How could you possibly know that these diseases would have not been naturally eradicated without the introduction of a vaccination when all of the scientific data pointed to this being the case? I just think it's hard to buy the "polio vaccinations saved us all" concept, when the disease was naturally diminishing. It just came in at the end, and got all of the credit.

It's worth looking into the work of Suzanne Humphries, MD for more info on how the polio and smallpox vaccination data was somewhat skewed to convey the notion that without vaccinations for these particular diseases, they would still be as prevalent today.