AIBU with Christmas / general in-law situation?

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Evening all, new on here but coming to the end of my tether with the IL'S and wanted to know AIBU? To cut a long story short-ish (sorry for long post), DH is a kind and gentle man - he just wants everyone to get along. He has 'kept up appearances' with MIL and FIL into his thirties but is now growing tired of 'not being good enough.'

DH recently chose to leave his high-pressured job and set up his own business. This has been a great success and he is happier and more successful (including wage-wise) compared to his old job. However, because it is not a traditional 9-5, FIL in particular is insistent that it is a 'ridiculous idea' and DH is 'bound to fail.' We visited last week and they kept him in the living room until 1.30pm quizzing him on every aspect of his life and criticising his every move e.g. no pension (even though he's started a private one etc). They even went so far as to compare my career with his and tell him that he needed to be more like me - I had to step in and emphasise that my job is very different etc.

So the background is that such interrogations have now been going on for over 2 years. We brought a house about 18 months ago and so far they have visited twice. The last time, the FIL phoned up at the last minute and said they would stay in a local hotel instead of at ours (we have 4 bedrooms and plenty of room). I assured them I would love them to stay but they had already booked elsewhere. They then refused to eat in (even though I had purchased ingredients for a lovely roast).

DH usually just says 'this is how they've always been' and doesn't like to cause a fuss / confrontation but it's becoming unbearable. He is so upset after he's visited (we go down about every 3 weeks - it's a 6 hour round journey). He tries to phone regularly but FIL often criticises him for not keeping in touch with MIL.

MIL herself is not the easiest person to get along with. I work in obesity prevention and she recently told me I couldn't go on stage at a conference as I would 'be a hypocrite and everyone would be pointing at the stage saying who's that fatty.' This was over lunch and DH was there although FIL was not. DH knew I was upset but he genuinely does not know how to stop his parents being so horrible.

Anyhow, where this is all leading is Christmas! Having agreed to come to us again like last year, they have now said they want to stay down south as they have had a better offer. I have tried to be diplomatic about this (after all, everyone is entitled to spend Christmas as they want and like DH I just want everyone to get along) but they are now requesting that we spend 3 days down there and go out for a meal with all of their friends etc.

DH wants to be at home and wanted to host them....he doesn't feel they participate in his life and is tired of being away from home visiting them. He also feels his parents are worse in their own space and is going to spend the whole of the holiday being attacked for his life choices. For my part, I feel my parents have not really been considered and that FIL and MIL are making excuses e.g. drives too long (FIL regularly drives to Scotland for golf and they drive to a holiday home every weekend which is the same distance as our house) when I would rather they admit they just don't want to spend Christmas up here.

So I guess AIBU about them in the first place? And secondly, about Christmas? DH is insistent that he doesn't want to go to the boxing day event. Should we just keep the peace? FIL is 71 and is in excellent health - in another 10 years, I would happily drop everything and go there but I feel if we give in now it will just create even further inbalance. Any advice greatly appreciated!

'No' is a complete sentence!

'That doesn't work for us'

Repeat repeat repeat, have a lovely Christmas without these two!

I strongly second therapy for your DH, it really sounds like he needs it frankly. To be brutally honest it sounds as though his parents just don't like him very much, not everyone is meant to be a parent and I know a couple of people in a similar situation, with horrible parents who only had children because that was was expected back in the day.

Why does he even engage? He doesn't need to answer any questions anymore than he would a stranger. He work/pension:home etc is none of their business really and he needs to stick to pleasantries

If they start asking he needs a swift change of subject

He should call when he feels like it - any 'but X rings .... 'that's nice' and leave it there

They are behaving like toddlers and he doesn't answer to them!!

Wowsers, they think its acceptable to say they have better plans than coming to their only son's for christmas and have the audacity to complain about his lack of phone calls and visits!

Personally I'd say well since you chose not to come to us as you preferred to be with others so have we!

Obesity prevention lawyer this sounds wonderful!

they kept him in the living room until 1.30pm quizzing him on every aspect of his life and criticising his every move e.g. no pension (even though he's started a private one etc)

This line really stuck out for me, how did they keep him in there>? Surely they must have tied him down, had him shackled? Restrained in some way because otherwise, at any point your DH was actually free to leave?!

Therefore in fact if your DH chooses to sit there and carry on listening he is choosing to invite this crap in.

They sound utter ally appalling awful people I agree you need to help him here and stand up for him and help him manage them, as for Xmas tell them there is no way you will be able to see them this year - bright and breezy as they know you will be seeing your family, and wish them a very merry xmas !

YANBU AT ALL! Please please don’t put yourself and OH through such a god-awful, miserable, toxic experience this Christmas!

You’ve already been completely reasonable in accommodating their wishes when you were first planning. How insulting of them to basically say they’ve got a better offer so won’t be coming, if that is even the case. I don’t believe they’ve organised this meal with all their friends at the last minute so they were probably always planning to organise their own thing and make you jump through hoops.

My family situation is v similar to your OH’s and I really really appreciate my DH’s support in stepping away from the toxicity of that environment. I know you’re trying to help by keeping a good relationship with his parents but perhaps the best thing for him (and you!) is to take a few steps back from them.

Hi aweektiltheseason:)

I agree - DH does enable them sometimes. I question why he is able to stand up to me and everyone else in his life and he says it's because he cares about us, whereas with his parents he just ignores it. 'It's going to happen anyway, they aren't going to change so why should I let it get to me.' We've had a talk this morning about how it does get to him and he does get angry / grumpy at the situation and that maybe he would be happier expressing his feelings a little more openly towards them.

In terms of the other evening, we arrived at 10pm after he had finished work. The first hour or so was spent interrogating me on my job progression but they've learnt where the line is there. Then then turned on DH (and I use the word purposefully as it was horrible to watch). He tried to walk away at 12.30am, leaving the room and expressing clearly that he was upset at the constant questioning / criticism. I went to get up to go after him but he asked me not to as he knew his parents would then say I was pandering.

Whilst he was away, instead of being concerned, FIL said his business was doomed to fail (its showing no signs of the sort and is incredibly low risk and makes DH very happy!) and that 'other people cope with the job he used to do up and down the country - why was he too weak to stick it out. He isn't good enough to make it on his own.' I was so worried about DH at this point that I kick myself now for now absolutely going for him. No one should talk about anyone like this, never mind their son. You should want what is best for them and he is safe and happy!

DH returned and asked to change the subject. MIL completely ignored and started attacking him again. So he does try. To go any further would in his mind would be a confrontation which he sees as a last resort....but I think he's starting to realise is the only way.

We've had the conversation this morning about how work talk needs to effectively be banned around his parents in terms of a polite decline of 'dad we've been over this. We will just have to agree to disagree.'
DH phoned in laws this morning to sort Christmas after I showed him the post (thankyou so much everyone - the response has been fantastic). FIL was only one in. Aside from once again criticising his job (DH shut him down straight away but it's infuriating his persistence!) he said that Christmas was not a 'preference' and that 'there is more to Christmas than a Boxing Day walk' but that it was important DH spends time with 'other people who know him too' (given up working out what these little dogs mean) and he needed to speak to MIL as she is doing the cooking.

DH feels better for having phoned but is on edge as it's not sorted and I can tell he just wants to get on with life.

Thanks again everyone :) fingers crossed the fallout brings a better balance.

In terms of the other evening, we arrived at 10pm after he had finished work. The first hour or so was spent interrogating me on my job progression but they've learnt where the line is there. Then then turned on DH (and I use the word purposefully as it was horrible to watch). He tried to walk away at 12.30am, leaving the room and expressing clearly that he was upset at the constant questioning / criticism. I went to get up to go after him but he asked me not to as he knew his parents would then say I was pandering.

Why are either of you putting up with this?

Next time, shut the conversation down. If they won't stop bullying you both like that, just leave. Don't say a word, just pick up your stuff and go.

You deserve better, both of you, but so long as you sit there and let them they'll continue to walk all over you.

Read up on grey rock. Basically you give them nothing to work with. Don't tell them about his business, don't share any news, just make polite chit chat and change the subject whenever they talk about you. Be really really boring. If they ask about Work, 'oh same old same old. Have you seen that new film...?' Get them on to their own pet subject and they'll go all day, if they are anything like mine!

We've tried to avoid the topics we anticipate are going to bring up trouble but MIL has become wise to our tricks I think. I suggest to DH if he doesn't want to get into something just to be vague but she will just get hysterical and keep on and on. He actually doesn't reveal much more as he just turns off. I think instead of turning off we need to be more proactive and not be passive participants any longer.

For example, when it became clear they were not going to be supportive of him leaving his job, DH did just block them from his work life and only told them he had resigned when he'd handed in his notice.

On which note, I should probably add something which I have buried away and tried to explain away but I fought a battle with cervical cancer about a year into relationship with DH. When DH told her she claimed he was saying she was a bad mother (I was flabbergasted - how do you even come to that from my DW has cancer!) and that he shouldn't have disturbed them during the 10pm news - 'how dare you ring us up on a Sunday evening and expect us to say anything'). DH was in tears (which is rare!) Neither FIL or MIL ever asked once how my treatment was going or offered any support DH. MIL regularly reminds DH of need to phone / send cards to the world and his dog over slightest thing but seems that I was the exception. I know I sound bitter and jealous sorry but it was really upsetting at the time.

Safe to say the other day when I said that my job was great now I was fully on the road to good health, she called the cancer a 'blip' and got pulled up on it. Chemo was not a blip and she may well belittle many things but there are lines.

Anyhow, the morale being they are probably just not my cup of tea but I love DH clearly and we need to achieve a better balance as they are his family....even though they're right when you can't choose them!

We've tried to avoid the topics we anticipate are going to bring up trouble but MIL has become wise to our tricks I think. I suggest to DH if he doesn't want to get into something just to be vague but she will just get hysterical and keep on and on.

But why let her keep on and on? She says something objectionable, you say you're not going to discuss it, and if she says anything else you leave.

You're enabling her behaviour by remaining in the room with her.

I'm sorry to hear about your cancer, OP, and hope you're fully recovered now. She really has a problem the way she turned that conversation round.

I don't think this is a case of them not being your cup of tea: they sound full-on abusive to me, and manipulative too. I doubt you'll ever get them to behave reasonably but you can control the way you react to them, and refusing to engage in their ridiculous behaviour is probably your best bet.

Thanks ontherise. I guess this is why MN is so great as it's only when I've written it all down in black and white, reread and put it out there publicly that I've realised what the heck are DH and I putting up with!

Both of us wrote a 10 point list this morning of boundaries we would like to impose such as 'challenge all insults' and 'do not let them dictate what we do if they come to visit.'

We also read through the checklist at the start of toxic parents. It's DH all over and I've noticed it's dawning on him today just how far he's got into a habit of trying to please them to the detriment of everyone else in his life.

I have no doubt he wants to stay together but in my quest to not make him choose between me and his parents in the same way they often do, I've put my own needs aside and allowed him to slide into this place where we're all unhappy.

I've found Captain Awkward invaluable in learning how to deal with my own difficult family, 66448. If you read through some of the archives there you'll find all sorts of advice on how best to shut down all those unpleasant discussions. It's really good. I'm on the other side of all that nastiness now and refusing to engage really was the best thing I ever learned now to do.

Blimey, I'm surprised you haven't exploded with rage at either of them.
Like others suggest, try grey rock conversations. Changing subjects, sounding as dull as possible. However, this has two effects that I have experienced: the change in conversation style can make you wonder if you seem really rude (but this could likely to be FOG) and it can often make narcissists (your In-Laws) hound you even harder.
Take a look at The Stately Homes thread.
Hope you are doing well following cancer xx

Everyone else has given great advice, just wanted to add that re Christmas, get your DH to text MIL 'as discussed with Dad, we can't make it down this year. Hope you're both well.' Then don't answer the phone when she rings to moan about it.

"I have tried to help MIL in terms of taking her out shopping, spa days, meeting up with her in the city in-between visits for lunch etc. to try and see whether her bitterness comes from loneliness"

OP you sound like a lovely person, who has been very positive in supporting your dh and in trying to be really kind to these difficult people. Glad that you and your dh are on the same page. Best of luck in moving forward

Thankyou so much for your kind words freshstarttoday and everyone else on this thread. In laws have not rung back but DH and I are enjoying a lovely evening (albeit being middle aged and boring and watching the apprentice ha!) and feeling much closer / less apprehensive. Time to start loving ourselves a little more and people pleasing less.

Thankyou again everyone - MN is such a great community.

get those toxic parent/in laws books someone suggested above and start putting yourself first,
if that means saying no do so,
if it means saying the subject is not up for debate and they carry on say come on wife lets go and walk out the door
if they say something PA or rude head tilt and "did you mean to be so rude?" or "what did you mean by that?"
Start pulling them up on their rudeness and shit each and every time and if they cant control their shit just say until you can behave we will have to keep our visits short and leave ( even if you have only just got there)
no more phone calls either, let them contact you and if they are rude on the phone.... you guessed it... call them out and tell them until they can speak to you as adults and mind their own business you will be limiting the calls and then hang up.
each time.... call them out on it, put it back on them... we dont call because you are rude to me/us.... we dont visit because you are rude to me/us... we would love to come but you are too rude to us/me.... we would love to make plans but you always cancel last minute or expect us to cancel our plans to accommodate you last minute as you dont value our time so no!

Hey everyone, good news on this. MIL rang DH back this evening. MIL started the conversation with 'I feel Christmas has become a battleground.' Well, sorry to say, quite, but through hardly anyone else's doing.

She then concluded 'clearly you want us to come up so we will out of duty.' DH was aghast and said he wanted them to come up because they wanted to spend Christmas with him not out of duty but regardless, they are coming and DH gets his wish of a family Christmas in his own home, able to drink and not have to make small talk with all and sundry!!!

Good to see DH relieved and we have agreed that we aren't going to let any digs or mood swings by the ILs spoil the festive period. I've been able to tell my parents a set plan now and we've stood our ground. Thanks guys for being an awesome support! X

I'm glad you're pleased, but what a vile way of putting it.

However, onwards and upwards. Do the "homework" that PPs have suggested and have a genuinely good christmas on your own turf and on your own terms.

I did predict on page 2 that a refusal to go down would bring about a change of heart

I'd have dumped them over the sense of duty though in fact I did say to get a plan together to stop them when they changed their minds

Good luck over the festive period.

I would be glad they have other plans, tell them you're staying home. They sound cruel and uncaring. You and DH sound like you have a promising future. Distance is the only way forward.

Abusers get away with it because they're not abusive 100% of the time - if they were, people would cut them off! Think about that.

They are not going to change. This "change of heart" is simply a tactic, born out of the feeling that their control of you and DH was slipping. It doesn't mean the message has got through.

Watch out for love bombing or an extinction burst.

They're toxic. DH is in his 30s. Why is he still trying to win their approval in his 30s? Time to accept it's not possible and there are other sources of approval for him in this life.

I say this as someone with a narcissistic nightmare of a mother. I finally allowed myself time to grieve the loss of the mother I never had. It still hurts but I am much happier now I've confronted all the buried grief and hurt.

Good luck