To stop using antibacterial products completely.

[Stormwhale]

I have a confession. I accidentally became one of those odd people obsessed with zoflora. I have many many bottles of it.

The problem is, since starting to use it about 6 months ago, I am sure I have been unwell more often and much more severely. I have had four or five vicious illnesses in that time, during which I have been laid up for days on end. I currently have pneumonia and bronchitis, which I have never had before.

I thought I was getting rid of nasty germs, but I think I have just been knocking out the weaker ones and allowing the stronger ones to thrive. Or is that nonsense?

I have also noticed that the way viruses are passing between dd and I has changed. Usually she would get a cold, i would catch it from her and have a similar period of illness. Now she gets it, then a few days later I catch it and am much worse.

Am I mad to blame the zoflora? Something is different this year and that is the only thing I think it could be. AIBU to chuck out all the zoflora and just use washing up liquid to clean instead?

I tried Zoflora once and it gives me the nastiest headache, surely it can't be good for humans?

You get some people putting it in washing machines, soaking it in cotton wool and putting it on the radiator and up the vac to release the smells, I've even heard of people putting it in their empty reed diffusers to scent the room!

I like the lavender Zoflora and a bottle lasts me 12 months. I use a diluted cap to swill round the toilet when I've cleaned it.

I've recently switched to using a wet cloth and dry cloth for dusting, hot soapy water for cleaning kitchen work surfaces, tiles, mopping the floor, cleaning the bathroom and anything that needs cleaning.

DS is rarely I'll but has allergies which were triggered by cleaning products. He used to sneeze, get watery eyes and cough a lot, now he's a lot better.

Occasionally I like a nice clean smell so I use Method pink grapefruit to wipe the kitchen sides and cupboards down with (usually once a month)

I also use washable cleaning cloths and these get washed every fortnight in the machine.

I was told that antibac sprays werent even for cleaning as there isnt an detergent in most of them. There correct useage was for spraying down surfaces after you had cleaned them.
Which if true makes them pretty useless anyway imo and just a money making scheme.

I rarely use bleach, i use white vinegar or soapy water for cleaning. I refuse to wash at very low temps so dont need to dettol my washing. Rather than using lots of air fresherners i open windows too.
We rarely get sick, house is cleanish i think i maybe still rocking halloween cobwebs

a while ago I bought some microfibre clothes and they seriously reduced the amount of cleaning products used in our house

Microfibre cloths are bad for the environment, something to do with the plastic fibres given off.

Rather than using lots of air fresherners i open windows too

They give me such bad migraines!! DS has a friend who has three dogs. She has 4 of the air fresheners in each corner of the room that spray out every 10 minutes and difference scented plug ins in every single plug plus reed diffusers in each room.

I dread being invited in for a cuppa!

It's great to have a thread like this hot on the heels of the thread about packaging and plastics. Perhaps we are all waking up to what we are doing to the planet and ourselves.

I don't use the anti-bacterial stuff and hardly ever use bleach. The floors are steam cleaned. I use Method cleaner, but it still comes in plastic bottles and I would like to reduce my dependence on plastic and toxic substances.

Does anyone have a home made spray cleaner recipe suitable for kitchen and bathroom surfaces?

So which non anti bacterial cleaning products to buy? I really don't want to make my own! Can we have a list of tried and tested please?

Method products smell gorgeous.

There is also another brand Waitrose (probably other places too) sell - called You Naturally Powerful. This is also great and you can buy refills for it saving money/recycling.

Wow, I've just read through this thread & honestly had no idea about any of this! I'm not a clean freak at all but do use bleach for the toilet, antibacterial spray for the kitchen & surfaces plus antibacterial hand-wash. I'm going to use up what we've got & switch to alternatives (probably method unless there are other reccomendations?)

Microbiologist here. I don't use any antimicrobial products in the home. I use hot soapy water and a cloth, and a bit of elbow grease if I have to.

In fact, even at work we don't use as much as some MNetters seem to use in their home, and even then we are aware of the hazards of their use, and wear gloves and avoid fumes. I consider the chemicals more hazardous than the bacteria most of the time.

Bacteria are fairly easy to avoid if you a) know where they are (in the home this is mainly the toilet area and uncooked meat), and b) avoid touching other surfaces, including your face, after touching a contaminated object, and c) wash your hands (especially before you eat).

If it wasn't this simple microbiologists would be sick all the time, we don't have super duper immune systems. I work with salmonella, shigella, E. coli etc. on a daily basis, as do my colleagues, and I can only think of one instance where a colleague was sick and possibly infected himself at work. Even then it could have been a dodgy sausage at a barbecue.

Remember, companies who sell antimicrobial wipes and cleaners want to convince you that you need them, because they want to make money from your paranoia about something you can't see. Their adverts are not a public service announcement.

This post has really made me think, I avoid taking antibiotics unless really necessary and then I'm spraying anti bac round my house like a woman possessed. Currently all full of the most disgusting cold and it's a regular occurrence in our house. So no I don't think YABU, I will be following suit, most definitely.

I think you need to pick your battles when it comes to microbes. The vast majority of microorganisms is harmless. There is no need to disinfect surfaces that don't come into contact with either food or bodily wastes. Clean yes, but not actually try killing every microbe around, not that you would be able to anyway. We are much better off with surfaces, including our skin, being populated by non-pathogenic microbes that keep potential pathogens at bay, rather then killing them off which would give potential pathogens the chance of gaining a foothold.

I'm shocked at the amount of antibacterial stuff people are using. Washing in Dettol? Seriously? I won't allow Dettol in our house, their adverts drive me mad and I blame them for the rise in use of antibacs.

I don't know why anyone would think that killing 99.9% of germs is a good thing. Surely it's obvious that the 0.1% left unkilled are going to breed like crazy and fill the gap left by the 99.9% (probably harmless) bacteria that you've just killed? And that it's likely that the 0.1% are not the good guys?

wrt liquid handsoap:

Would filling with cheap washing up liquid work for hands?

yes it would. we use ecover washing up liquid or a bar soap. normal liquid hand soap gives me eczema.

This is fascinating. Thought I was doing fairly well with just soap and water generally and a bit of anti limescale (necessary evil), but just saw about micro fibre cloths shedding.

Any good alternative to microfibre PickaChew?

Hmm. This thread has given me food for thought. I use Flash with bleach on a daily basis, multiple times in the kitchen along with dettol wipes and plenty bleach in the bathroom.
I'm not as bad as I used to be though, I would buy medical grade wipes for cleaning door handles and such like.

I'm going to give the grapefruit spray a go though, that sounds lovely. Although I really love the smell of bleach

Apart from bleach down the loo and occasionally (twice a year?) on my kitchen floor I don't use any sprays/chemicals/antibacterial stuff.

Hot water and washing up liquid (cheapo not anti bac stuff) for the kitchen surfaces and a rinse down with hot water only in the bathroom post bath/shower and dry dusting everywhere else.

Nothing to do with a conscious choice re: none use of chemicals just purely CBA - I have better things to do with my time than cleaning...

We are VERY RARELY sick. Once a year around turn of winter (ie now) we'll all get a bit of a cold, think cough but no major snots.

It's years since any of us have had anything even resembling flu, yet none of us have flu jabs either.

Can't remember last time any of us had anything resembling a D&V bug?

Hadn't really thought about it before but seen a couple of similar threads on this topic on here lately that've made me think there could be a connection .....

I must say I didn't know about microfibre clothes releasing the fibresinto environment. Stupid me, they are made of polyester of course. Will have to revert into using old cotton pants/t-shirts as clothes.
As an observation, it's getting more and more difficult to get clothes that are not a blend of synthetics. Even socks are not cotton anymore :(

I haven't used antibac for years because I could bloody see this coming - the antibiotic/germ resistance. I use bleach down the loo, and eco-friendly cleaning products for everything else. And bar soap for hand-washing, which is enough to remove most germs/viruses (not kill them; remove them).

I've changed to making my own sprays from vinegar infused with citrus peelings and herbs. Soap and water otherwise.
Really effective.

I try and avoid anti-bac, I find that Method multi purpose spray cleans everything (even my oven),their shower spray used daily keeps the shower sparkling too. They have introduced some anti-bac stuff now but it’s easy to avoid. My concern was that I don’t want bleach in my food or my child’s food.

I can also throw in my anecdotal two penneth that DS is rarely ill and I’ve caught him licking food off the floor, same goes for the dog 😎

stormwhale you can improve your immunity by increasing the amount of good bacteria that you eat, in probiotics. Kefir is great, particularly if you've had to take antibiotics. Also fermented foods generally, like sauerkraut, pickles etc. It's really worth finding out more about improving your gut health as it helps in so many ways.

Soap and water does kill bacteria, as the detergent breaks down their cell membranes, which are made up of fats and other molecules. Absolutely no need for anything marketed as "anti-bacterial", it's all a con to get us to part with our money. As MissWilmottsGhost said, the best thing we can all do is remind ourselves that companies are here to convince us to buy stuff, which we may or may not need. Education, and a healthy dose of cynicism, is the key here.

DS has a friend who has three dogs. She has 4 of the air fresheners in each corner of the room that spray out every 10 minutes
I always wonder what that bombardment of artificial scent feels like to animals, especially those with far better sense of smell such as dogs. Plus all they do is mask horrible smells not remove the sourse, which seems rather yukky to me.

you can improve your immunity by increasing the amount of good bacteria that you eat, in probiotics...Also fermented foods generally, like sauerkraut
Yup. I'll just add to be mindful that a lots of the sauerkraut sold in supermarkets is actually pasteurised so doesn't contain the "good" bacteria. So be careful and check the labels.

I use a bit of bleach in a big bucket of hot water to mop floor of 5 rooms once a week. I use anti back spray on kitchen surfaces daily after dinner etc. I use toilet cleaner down the loos. I clean bath and shower with an all purpose cleaner. I clean windows and mirrors and chrome with white vinegar. I think it's the overuse of these products that is dangerous not sensible use. 4 of us here, rarely ill.

Oh and a dog!

Oh and NEVER use air fresheners, open a window regularly!