To stop using antibacterial products completely.

[Stormwhale]

I have a confession. I accidentally became one of those odd people obsessed with zoflora. I have many many bottles of it.

The problem is, since starting to use it about 6 months ago, I am sure I have been unwell more often and much more severely. I have had four or five vicious illnesses in that time, during which I have been laid up for days on end. I currently have pneumonia and bronchitis, which I have never had before.

I thought I was getting rid of nasty germs, but I think I have just been knocking out the weaker ones and allowing the stronger ones to thrive. Or is that nonsense?

I have also noticed that the way viruses are passing between dd and I has changed. Usually she would get a cold, i would catch it from her and have a similar period of illness. Now she gets it, then a few days later I catch it and am much worse.

Am I mad to blame the zoflora? Something is different this year and that is the only thing I think it could be. AIBU to chuck out all the zoflora and just use washing up liquid to clean instead?

I was using it on everything and my breathing was terrible. And my skin itched. Only use it on the floors now.

It's a standing joke in our family that my gran was a total clean freak and my dad and his sister were always ill. He has allergies to this day. My mum's mum was not really big on housework and they were rarely ill.

Hob is cleaned with washing up liquid and washing powder. Bleach once in blue moon to clean up the plug holes. A while ago I bought some microfibre clothes and they seriously reduced the amount of cleaning products used in our house. They are used to spruce up the oven, clean the windows(no smudges), wipe up spillages, dry the surfaces then they are chucked into washing.
We have wooden cutting boards for everything, if something is dropped on the floor we pick it up and eat it(mostly kids). The only stomach bug we had was the one DC brought from school. Hygiene wise: always wash your hands after leaving the toilet and before preparing food. Hand towels changed more often than bathing ones and washed at least at 60 degrees.

Boopsy, you need to expose your body to some bacteria to strenghten up your immune system. I only use detergents on greasy surfaces (hob, cooker hood, worktop, sink) and rinse it afterwards. For tv unit/bookcase damp and then dry microfibre will do.

Oh and YANBU, OP, chuck the shit out if you think it makes you ill. Wishing you speedy recovery.

A bit of muck won't harm you.

Actually soap doesn't necessarily 'kill' bacteria at all, it washes them away. It is more an unsticking agent, in that it removes bacteria from surfaces.

So-called antibacterial soaps are fortunately a complete waste of time btw. They are the most profound triumph of marketing over fact and common sense! Consider how a surgeon needs to scrub up, and then compare that with 10 seconds of a piss-weak domestic antibac handwash. They are completely ineffectual, and yet we are putting that stuff on our skin.

My personal beef with all these antibacterial agents is that they can make people sloppy about actual soap and water cleaning, and that they are increasing our chemical load for absolutely no benefit at all. And also that the marketing (always follow the money!) of these products gives rise to a sort of diffuse anxiety rather than a clarity about what needs to be done in order to ensure that we keep safe from genuine pathogens. Who gave us the message that we need to spray everything with antibacterials? Clue - it isn't healthcare professionals.

Who has given us the message that we should wash our clothes at 30C and use zoflora or dettol rather than wash our clothes at an effective temperature so that they are er, clean? Really, how did that mindfuck happen?

We need to wash hands after handling certain things and wash surfaces after putting certain things on them. It is really pretty simple.

Bleach is good for surfaces that cannot have soap and hot water.

As for Triclosan in toothpaste... The human mouth is FULL of bacteria, pathogens as well as bacteria that are 'friendly'. We are designed to bear them, to be that way. The sheer bloody pointlessness of altering that balance for a whole 3 minutes or however long the effects of Triclosan will actually last is mind-boggling. Personally speaking Triclosan gives me a raging sore throat if I use it regularly - swollen glands, the works. It doesn't do this to most people fortunately, but given that it has no objective benefit at all, why would you want it in your mouth?

Haffiana, sadly common sense has been killed in most areas of our lives.Sadly also most of people will believe the tv ads that dettol spray will protect your family (from what???) killing 99.9% of bacteria (they forgot to mention that remaining 0.01 bacteria population will still thrive and multiply). Let's buy more "protection" in plastic bottles, let's be ill more often because our bodies are not used to everyday bacteria environment, get antibiotics and the ooooh surprise, antibiotic doesn't work because the bacteria is already immune to it and your gut flora is fucked as well.

all this time I've been thinking that DD and I are often ill is because I don't clean my house enough with antibacterial- and we use a fair amount!!

Maybe I've been getting it all wrong.

DD and I are always and forever I'll, sickness bugs, diahorrea, throat infections (13 last year for DD and five for myself!)

Just thought I must have not been doing well enough cleaning.

This thread makes me want to stop dousing everything in antibac- even wash in Dettol shower gel!

I'm always astounded by the amount of bleach people use when the 'how much bleach do you buy each month' threads.
it's not necessary, harmful to health and environment and just bleaches the dirt...

laundry powder.
and a loo brush

Mirofibre cloths aren't all that, environmentally - they shed microplastic articles into the water, when you wash them, whihch can stay in the food chain for years.
www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jun/29/microfibers-plastic-pollution-apparel-oceans

particles - very small articles

We do have anti bacterial soap. Not because it's anti bac but because it's in a dispenser and tidier. If anyone knows a cheap alternative then I'd consider it. Would filling with cheap washing up liquid work for hands?

People are disinfecting all surfaces? The mind boggles.

Also op doesn't zoflora smell strong? Please don't dump it, give it away for those who occasionally need it.

I hope you feel better soon.

Disinfecting all surfaces?

How do they have the time?

Grocklebocs I fill my hand wash dispenser with bubble bath which I think is antibacterial, also saves loads on buying hand washes. Alternatively you can get non antibacterial hand washes like method etc but they can be pricey.

Soap does kill bacteria. Detergents dissolve their membranes and kill them that way. You need to wash hands a little longer than the average 5 seconds I see most people wash their hands for but detergents do kill most microorganisms given enough exposure time.

Plenty of hand soap in dispensers is not antibacterial any detergent like soap fairy liquid acts by breaking cell walls of bacteria down so they are then washed away. Bleach I
Works by killing bacteria so they are still there but dead so they build up as a film you still need detergent after to remove them, bleach is bad for the environment so should be used sparingly like when the family has d& v.
We do cross infection training regularly as dentists, they stress that hand washing soap should be plain and unscented not antibacterial. This is the same for doctors and nurses, if we don't need it in a clinic you don't need it at home.

Well I feel I have done my good deed as some other posters are seeing the light like me.

Doesn't washing powder have bleach in it? Would that not cause the same problems if used for cleaning?

OP yanbu to cut down on antibacterial products (I don't use them) but I would doubt that you could blame your illnesses directly on them - that's probably bad luck, or the consequence of one illness making you more vulnerable to the next.

by breaking cell walls of bacteria

No they don't, as legions of microbiologist who tried to break cells for DNA extraction will be able to confirm. It takes enzymes and some serious organic solvents, such as chloroform/phenol or mechanical method like bead beating or sonication to break cell walls. Detergents dissolve membranes, they leave cell walls pretty much intact.

Nyx - yes it does smell strong. I thought that was a good thing to be honest. It smells clean and fresh rather than anything unclean. The smell lasts longer than other cleaning products.

However, that is totally not worth feeling this ill and contributing to antibiotic resistance.