Men today?

[gillybeanz]

Is it just on here or are men just not very good these days.

The amount who are selfish, lacking empathy, bullies, abusive, and so many more negative characteristics, noted on here.

In comparison to men when we were young 26 years ago, they are almost neanderthal now. We seem to be going backwards.
Do they just spring the cuntyness on women or do women not see the signs soon enough?

I'm sure my dh isn't the best in the world, he has his problems but I just don't see any of the cuntyness that is so often talked about on here.

Years ago a man wouldn't have dreamt of abandoning his family and leaving them without a penny, society would have massively frowned upon that in a way that they just don't today.

I think you’re very mistaken about this.

Has Margaret Thatcher risen from the dead?

What you read on MN is hardly representative of how men are overall nowadays seeing as it didn't exist before a few years ago (and it's very general because shock horror no two men are alike!)

I'm just disappointed that this isn't a new daytime talk show.

Twenty six years ago Jimmy Savile was abusing vulnerable children and young women. Harvey Weinstein was behaving in the disgraceful ways now known to us, Kevin Spacey likewise. Extremes yes, but probably not alone.

@MissTeri i dont know what you are talking about.

Many men abandoned their families. Without dna tests they could claim the child wasnt theirs. Job done.

All the things you mention above, are either not true or made things worse.

Op, men (as a group) aren't getting worse. Its simply that, thats what MN is used for -venting.

Also, we only get one side of the story. From someone who is usually annoyed.

Look at mil/dil relationships on here. My mum and my sil dont get on. If each posted you would think the other was awful. But from the middle i can see they have noth done things that put them in the wrong. Mum has made mistakes so has sil. Neither are awful, they just dont get along.

Oh and 26 years ago my mum was a single parent. And ashamed. I got bullied for it. She got ignored by some people.

26 years ago i would have stayed with mu abusive dh. Now i am getting divorced and dont feel any shame about being a lone parent. No one has treated me like shit for it. I have a career which means i can support my kids, no one at work thinks i am less for being a lone parent.

I would much rather be an adult now, than 26 years ago.

DH and I were having a similar conversation yesterday oddly enough.

28 years I was 8 so I can only compare to what I knew about my parents relationship. My mum was a SAHM/carer for Grandma but she worked in a friend’s shop on a Saturday morning. My Dad was very hands on, the person I wanted when ill, he always did the washing up every night and housework on a Saturday morning. He was crap at cooking and always made/burnt Sunday tea. My parents tell me that he did all my night time bottle feeds when I was a baby.

DH was asking if I thought most men were crap yesterday. I had joined him and toddler at their usually Saturday morning toddler class and one of the Mum’s was saying her partner had come in drunk and woken the toddler with inconsiderate behaviour at 12 and the Mum was up to 4.30 trying to get the toddler asleep. DH was shocked by his behaviour.

DH mentioned one of his colleagues from his industry who he thought was a newbie has he has only recently started to come for Friday night drinks but he has only recently he was not a newbie to the work pub scene but had just taken 5 year break from pub as they had young children. DH now goes once a month and it always home to do bath time or bedtime.

DH mentioned that he knows men whose lives have continued the same after kids as before and he thinks in their mind they believe that they have everything under control by managing everything but in DH opinion they are ‘shafting’ (horrible term, he disagreed om it’s use) their partners.

I did remind him that he was a bit of a man child when we met and I had to stand my ground to make him do his fair share.

I don’t know if things are better or worse than 30 years ago but I do think there is still a lot of first wave feminism mentality of when can have/should do it all by themselves.

Men do not exist in a vacuum. And if the way we bring kids up has changed and the way we educate them and what we expect has changed - of course the way they will behave when they are adults will change.

My DH is a bit like the example you describe, but not abusive, and although he really is to blame for a lot of his twattery, a lot of it is also because his father was an absolutely horrendous role model. He had such an awful childhood that he has turned all his emotions off like a switch, never to be seen again!

I don't think I agree OP, though I understand I can only go on the men that I know!

I have 5 main 'men' in my family DH, Dad, DIL, BIL and BIL 2. All hardworking, honest, helpful around the house in terms of both domestic chores, parenting etc. Infact it was my DIL who provided childcare for my DS when I returned to work.

I also don't work with any women any more. I am in charge of 34 men in my job. I have 4 direct bosses - all Male. In terms of work and respect all of them are a 10 out of 10.

I have a DN who has just this week turned 17. He is helpful to his mother (my SIL) and just yesterday I saw him put in a load of washing and hang another load on the line! He left school in June straight into an electricians apprenticeship - a young man to be proud of!

I think that we hear the worst here on MN when it comes to men, of course there are going to be absolute arseholes but that's not gender exclusive! It's just that not many men are coming on here to talk about the female arsehole variety. Also, I do think that sometimes on here the ones who are venting are obviously extremely hacked off about something and perhaps exaggerate just how annoying, irritating wankerish and lazy their other half's are and that unfortunately is all we have to go on when we are offering our opinions on the potential nob head!

There are the same amount of male (and female) arseholes now as there were when you were young; you just never heard about it because everything was so kept in the dark back then.

It's the same thing as when people spout bullshit about how there's more crime now than when they were young - there isn't (in fact there's far less); we just have the media to broadcast it.

You're looking at the past with rose tinted spectacles, OP, whether you want to admit it or it.

Take, say, an example of 100 relationships.

90 of them are great and the husbands are loving/kind/helpful etc etc.

In the other 10 of them the bloke is a prick who is controlling/lazy/rude etc.

The90 satisfied wives won’t look out a web forum aimed at offering support to those in need and write about how amazing their husbands are.

The 10 who are being abused/taken for granted etc will.

You then come along to read the posts and conclude that ‘all men aren’t not very good’ from your sample of 10%. Ignoring the 90% who are normal decent chaps.

So yes, YABU to draw this conclusion. Open your eyes to the world around you, and don’t limit your judgement to such a skewed source as AIBU on Mumsnet.

They've always been cunts, it's just that women are only now starting to realise the injustice and speaking out.

My dad was a hands on dad, cooked, cleaned, took us kids out so mum could have some "me" time. My brother started his family early and was also hands on. I had good male role models so married some-one similar to my dad and brother.
I read these threads on MN about men who do fuck all and I think to myself why do women put up with it. I would find it so disrespectful that my life partner refused to be involved and left it all to me that I would quickly lose the love and respect for them, then what's the point in continuing in a relationship where they clearly perceive you to be the lesser partner

There are lots of comments on this thread about men being helpful with childcare or housework. You never see women described as helpful when it comes to look after their own children or doing their own housework.

I think that we hear the worst here on MN when it comes to men, of course there are going to be absolute arseholes but that's not gender exclusive!

Good point

There are lots of comments on this thread about men being helpful with childcare or housework. You never see women described as helpful when it comes to look after their own children or doing their own housework.

I was just about to write exactly that! We should stop giving men a round of applause for simply pulling their weight. Raise our expectations, and as a PP said, check they aren't lazy twats before you get too deeply involved rather than marry them then moan they're lazy. And why do so many women on MN continue to have children with men who have proven to be unsupportive since child #1. Do they really think these men are going to radically change for the better just because it's child #2 or child #3?

I think that we hear the worst here on MN when it comes to men, of course there are going to be absolute arseholes but that's not gender exclusive!

I believe it is. Experience has shown me that the vast majority of assholes are male.

Happy to be proven wrong.

OP, there are plenty of wonderful men, as there plenty of horrible women. 26 years ago men were still more Neanderthal than they are now, in the outlook and approach to women.

It's socialisation and how changing beliefs alter gender roles and expectations. My mum believes that the man is still head of the house and what he says goes, even if he's wrong (She really does). I of course don't believe that crap, and we have so many arguments over this. But these beliefs, that unless challenged, get perpetuated by the next generation. But in the present day they really being challenged- and for the better!

I have never come across the kind of men that you read about on MN in real life.

More and more men are being raised by only their mothers, and the male figure to train the boy into a thoughtful respectful man is removed. So as long as women are leaving men for picking there noses they will be raising men to follow suit.. there are reasons for all actions and if you don't want to find out what those reasons are and work through them this will only get worse

I worry about boys and the men they will become. (I worry about girls too, but in the context of this thread, boys) I work in a secondary and there is a strong culture of boys who have little respect or regard for women and girls and what they say and do. In the last week, the HT has had to have words with a group of young men because of the way they talk to female students and teachers. My friend who is a very experienced technician is looked at blankly when explaining how to use equipment, but when "sir" shows them they get it. She actually heard a year 8 boys say "ignore her, she's a woman". I'm proud that a group of young women took this head on and said "enough". They no longer accepted that it's "culture" or "banter". But this is often the excuse.
But then again when one of the most powerful men in the world is a proud sex offender, when the media is intent on demeaning equality by making women out to be either "feminazis" or whores it's no fucking wonder.

More and more men are being raised by only their mothers, and the male figure to train the boy into a thoughtful respectful man is removed

Oh yay, someone blaming women. Again. Congratulations, you're a twat.

So as long as women are leaving men for picking there noses they will be raising men to follow suit

OR it could be because men are abusive bastards, 1 in 4 remember. Congratulations, you're a minimising twat

Years ago a man wouldn't have dreamt of abandoning his family and leaving them without a penny, society would have massively frowned upon that in a way that they just don't today.

Thousands of men abondoned their families and left them without a penny years ago, absolutely thousands. What country were you actually raised in?