To be bothered by how much we consume as a society...

[Cakelesswonder]

Don't get me wrong I love a retail therapy session but today just felt utterly gluttonous in the amount of ads for Black Friday, the 'deals, I couldn't move for emails offering me 20% off lots of things I don't need. I'm not suggesting everyone knits their own yogurt and lives like Mormons but I really feel we don't have the resources on Earth to keep consuming, throwing and consuming like we do. Everything is disposable, straws, clothes, we buy water in bottles then throw them away polluting the oceans and planet for ourselves and future generations. I have no idea what the overall solution is but it really got to me today .

You can wear a jumper or trousers many times before it gets to a state you have to wash it. Jeans, man! I can wear a pair a dozen times before washing them.

This ALL OVER.

The amount of people on here who wash their towels/clothes after 1 use! So they always smell of flowers! Unbelievable.

Me & all the women in my family have that gene where your sweat doesn't smell, and I don't really sweat anyway, so I don't wash my clothes until they have food stains on them. They just never smell so I don't see the point.

I used to do a wash about once a month (when my 40 pairs of knickers were down to the 10 I didn't like) - since my rugby-playing boyfriend moved in it's now about 2-3 washes a week. Sigh!

Occams & Curry, I want to hug you both!

Kettles, no, hard water area, don't know what the kettle luck is about.

Taylor, why did the milk service do that? Was it about weight or something?

Some great ideas, I really hope many people here will say to others about the "no more plastic tat for Xmas" and that we can all be braver with the o word. I have two good friends with 4 and 5, that's my worry, I'm not sure how they'll take it. If they see it as a personal attack, it could be hard.

Just back from my parents, they run a really green household but while we were all thinking about it we thought of spreadable butter containers, should go back to wrapped butter, and also those yogurt making kits. I am a bit confused on those, are they just chemicals?

Great thread.

Isn't washing powder in a cardboard box the best option?
I would've thought so as the cardboard could be recycled I'd imagine.

Any recommendations for solid shampoo bars please?
I like these soapnut bars Nyx1

Rinse stuff in the washing up water after finishing the washing up
Exactly. Just because stuff for recycling needs washing first doesn't mean it has to be done on its own. I always clean them at the end after I've washed the dishes. Takes no extra water or detergent.

Photographer campaigning to save the seas.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-42010479

Nyx if you value your friendship with those friends with 4 or 5 DC, is it really a conversation you need to have with them? I mean - the damage is done isn't it, so to speak? It might come across as a bit of a attack and 'holier than thou'. There are lots of other ways we can discuss being greener before telling someone that the decisions they have made about the size of their family is irresponsible and damaging the environment.

I imagine a couple with no kids who fly abroad and internationally 2 or 3 times a year throughout their lifetime have a similar footprint to a family of 5 who try to live minimally and don't fly abroad.

I imagine a couple with no kids who fly abroad and internationally 2 or 3 times a year throughout their lifetime have a similar footprint to a family of 5 who try to live minimally and don't fly abroad.

I really don't think they do. Burning a bit of petrol has nowhere near the same effect as the sea of plastic crap those kids will get through (and even if the family live cleanly, once the kids grow up they will get place of their own and be consumers).

Why would you tell friends who already have lots of kids that you don't approve of it? What is the point?

This time of year (well any really if I see adverts on kids TV) what really gets to me is the whole 'must have toy' thing. Lots of people freely admitting they know they won't be played with long but still buy them. There are so many great toys out there that will be loved and played with longer.

I have been using my canvas shopping bags for a few years. I hate carrier bags and hate paying for them.
I like primarks paper bags and wonder why more don't use them.
I use bread bags as sandwich bags.
I freeze butter icing, mash, other batch cooked meals rather than throwing away or having to cook it all from scratch again.
I try and get 2nd hand quality stuff on eBay.
I don't shower daily. I wear clothes at least 3 times before washing.
I use bar soap.
However, whatever I do is negated by my consumerist, hoarding, tat loving partner and daughter.

Little, I don't mean actually tell them but I'm on Twitter and with all the tweets I see about Blue Planet, I'm tempted to say "have you thought about overpopulation". I actually have quite a few followers, some much younger, and it might help.

But I'm worried in case my comments get back to those two families. And one of the parents on Twitter in fact - only occasionally so he might not see it, but still.

DP says I'm being silly because those couples know why we adopted but I don't think that's the same as saying it on Twitter.

I have been following this thread, like others I really feel like I try hard not to buy new, reuse and recycle but it also feels like a really hard battle that needs to be fought. It's so tiring sometimes

For example we took our dc into the city today to go to the museum. We had lunch in the cafe there. Ordered food from the menu so no pre packaged food, but the dc had juice cartons and the museum provided tap water - but in plastic cups!

I guess I just feel deflated that despite our best efforts we still ended up creating unnecessary waste.

I have just ordered some more washable sanpro and make up wipes which I'm excited to get though

WhataLoad, nearly missed that suggestion, thanks.

I’ve just asked the elves my husband for washable cleansing pads / makeup removers in my stocking this year. I am also going to ask work if the secret Santa can be a recycled / second hand one. DH is getting a bamboo coffee cup. This thread is full of really good ideas - thank you!

We fly as a family to visit family. I ain't swimming or sailing the Atlantic. We have 3DC with our third not being intentional.

And yes flying private is not as environmentally friendly as flying commercially and sharing an airplane with lots of people. It's like driving instead of taking the bus. Someone better tell Leonardo DiCaprio and Al Gore.

Also plastics isn't the issue. Oil is. Plastic is just one of many byproducts.

It's a toughie, Nyx I guess procreation is so personal and really no one has a right to comment on that choice, IMHO. Taking it to the next level and adopting, as you have, is incredibly admirable and I have a lot of respect for people that are willing to forego that selfish aspect of our humanity for the wider good... But then again the population thing is nuanced isn't it. People live longer and we have flourished as a specirs because of modern day medicine, we can't turn back that clock. The population is bound to exponentially grow and stopping people acting out the basic human desire to have a family is problematic. How? Without laying down a law (see China - and all the problems and sorrow that period of their history has caused) I just don't think it's something that can easily be campaigned for.

As other PP have said... Big business are the ones that can really make he change here. Sanctioned by law.

Last year I bought a load of fat quarters of xmas fabric really cheap, stitched them all up into bags for xmas gifts last year. We're reusing them this year too so there wont be the mountain of xmas paper waste in the recycle bin.

Yes we still use xmas paper for gifting others - or we reuse last years paper gift bags others gifted us!

Its only a little thing but so far its working a treat to reuse xmas themed tins and fabric bags to wrap gifts.

I do a lot of other bits and pieces to keep waste down. Lots of recycling and I gift any of my unwanted stuff to charity shops. I actually buy a lot of my stuff second hand too! Gave up with a decent matching dinner set years ago and now I just buy a random plate from the charity shop whenever another one breaks. System works for us because I try to stick to a single colour so it sort of matches.

Population growth decreases when women are given access to education, employment and contraception.

When migrants from high birth rate countries move to countries with a lower birth rate, they tend to adopt the birth rate of the country they move to and have less children. And in most "rich" countries, the average number of children per woman is less than 2 so their populations will start declining. Birth rates are also slowing in poorer countries and will continue to do so as they get richer; women get more power and life expectancy increases so there won't be a need to have so many children.

The fact that the Earth's population will probably reach 10 billion by the end of this century really scares me, but it won't increase ad infinitum beyond that, even without the struggle for resources that we all fear.

I am glad it's not just me that feels very uncomfortable. Every thing that is manufactured has to first come out of the ground and I can't see what will be left for future generations.

Kris Kringle gifts are at the top of my list at this time of the year. Just why do people at work feel the need to have a gift to open. We are adults, we don't need to receive more stuff we will probably never use or want. More land fill uneccsarily taken out of the ground.

Five year old George Monbiot article from The Guardian.

www.monbiot.com/2012/12/10/the-gift-of-death/

If anyone is in South London- on the wonky veg front we just started to use oddbox.co.uk which is a box scheme where all the veg and fruit are the supermarket rejects. it seems to be excellent value so far as well. I love the concept and I think they are planning to expand further soon.

juan Actually what scares me about birth rates is that when birth control becomes available in poorer countries the educated women take it and the poor women don't. My friend is from Zambia and hates the Bill and Melissa Gates foundation for their work in Zambia on birth control. You end up potentially creating further division and poverty in future years because the poor expands exponentially while the educated family population stays the same or decreases.

I really wish that instead of making birth control available that education is made available for all women in poverty and all girls. I think the impact would be better in the long term. The goal should be to end up with everyone rising out of poverty.

I don't think anything will properly change until it affects human race directly (by directly, I mean face to face, in everyday life, direct consequences), by which time it will be beyond catastrophic.

Has anyone read The City of Ember?

I really wish that instead of making birth control available that education is made available for all women in poverty and all girls

what?!

I think birth control most definitely should remain available and actually there is need for an increase in availability.