To be bothered by how much we consume as a society...

[Cakelesswonder]

Don't get me wrong I love a retail therapy session but today just felt utterly gluttonous in the amount of ads for Black Friday, the 'deals, I couldn't move for emails offering me 20% off lots of things I don't need. I'm not suggesting everyone knits their own yogurt and lives like Mormons but I really feel we don't have the resources on Earth to keep consuming, throwing and consuming like we do. Everything is disposable, straws, clothes, we buy water in bottles then throw them away polluting the oceans and planet for ourselves and future generations. I have no idea what the overall solution is but it really got to me today .

The trouble is in away humans are parasites. Parasites are fine and can live in harmony with their host (earth in this case). But if parasites populations grow out of control and they take too much they endanger their host and thus them self too. The plastic and unreasonable consumption is a problem. Also the population explosions we are seeing and forecasted to continue to see in places like sub Saharan Africa and Bangladesh. Areas where we have little ability to change attitudes and birth rates. I don't think we'll really understand the affect of our parasitic nature untill our birds come home to roost.

The thing is, many of the changes can be quite small. Someone upthread mentioned liquid laundry detergent. Yes you can recycle the bottles, but massive amounts of energy are used to produce it in the first place. We buy the sealed pouches of individual capsules - not perfect, but a lot better than a mahoosive bottle. Same with things like instant coffee - the Kenco pouches which are decanted into a storage jar rather than a glass jar. If people started shunning the packaging, manufacturers would respond.

However sometimes I feel that I'm a lone voice in a sea of tat - last week at work someone was discussing what the "in" colours were for Christmas decorations and where she was going to buy "this year's" from. I mentioned I had decorations in the loft which were bought before I had my eldest child 14 years ago. Horror struck looks - how could I possibly NOT buy new every year???

Yes, Peanut abd Occam, overpopulation is a problem and probably the worst one

But I'm so pleased how much people will do before that one sinks in (which is going to take ages).

Great idea re bread bags. Yay for the DC who refused the sponsored balloon thing!

I am thinking about christmas trees. Millions of people on the planet buy a christmas tree every single year, then 2-3 weeks later we throw it away...
I know it's tradition and it is lovely to have a Christmas tree that scents the room but it will die slowly and we'll chuck it in the bin only to do the same the next year. How do they get replaced? Is there a special farm that produces pine trees just for our Christmas entertainment? Do you think it's a waste too, even though it is biodegradable?

Cross post Luna, I just look at those people and say "why do you want that plastic for your DC future?"

Isn't washing powder in a cardboard box the best option? I don't know, maybe it isn't?

Seeing online that not much plastic gets recycled in reality

Any recommendations for solid shampoo bars please?

One thing I have noticed (being 56 and old enough to have seen this change) is the increase in consumption over the last 50 years or so. Although some things have improved in that time (recycling collections, more recycling centres), we seem to consume far more stuff now than 50 years ago.

For example, things like party bags weren't around when I was a child (you just got a piece of birthday cake to take home), people really did receive fewer birthday/Christmas gifts, and it was all things you would actually use rather than play with for 5 mins then throw away. And no-one had heard of a Secret Santa then.

And things like electrical goods were made to last much longer, or at least be repairable. It wasn't expected (like it is now) that they would soon be obsolete anyway and you would need to "upgrade" every year or so.

Also all the stuff that we seem to be persuaded we need, that we live perfectly well without for years. Trendy gadgets that get used for a few months then forgotten about. Huge quantities of skin care products (my grandmother just used Pond's cold cream).

It's a marketing con, really, designed to make us spend more and more money on stuff we don't need.

Nazdarovye, Christmas trees are usually grown on a farm and harvested (at least they are near where I live), but I think this year, I may try to buy a small pot grown one and keep it in the garden and bring it in each year.

And at least a real tree is biodegradable, and has produced oxygen during its life, which is more than an artificial one will have done. An artificial one will have used plastics and will eventually end up in landfill.

1DAD2KIDS I think that's an awful thing to say, yes we have lost our way big time. We have the ability to change things though.

Where the population is increasing they aren't using the resources that the Western world use are they. So many other countries where the birth rate is stable or in decline.

Bangladesh's birth rate has dropped.

www.dandc.eu/en/article/successful-family-planning-bangladesh-holistic-approach-leads-lower-fertility-rates-rates

On the app so can't link, but there is a thread in the ethical living forum for posters interested in tips for a low impact Christmas. Come and join in!

Vitalogy that is such a good thought that I'm annoyed I didn't think of it. We have loads as I keep them for making sauces and chutneys but didn't think of other foods! Brilliant!
Nazdarovye actually we can be pretty rubbish at the lights thing although I'm hot on the water. We used to have one of those meters that told us electricity useage and that became almost a challenge to get the numbers down, but it doesn't work now and we haven't been as controlled. Thanks for the reminder.

I hate all the plastic we are more or less forced to buy and use.

We are a family of 4. I cook from scratch most days. We recycle glass, metal, card and paper. Veg peelings go to the compost bin or for the guinea pigs. And I always have a black bin overflowing by bin day. Much of it plastic.

The nearest recycling place for plastic is 8 miles away and most of what we have isn't even recycleable plastic.

Add to that plastic toys and tat for ds. Appliances needing to be replaced. And all the other things we buy and use.

It's such a throwaway society we live in. I am a bit thrifty when it comes to replacing things and rarely upgrade a working item. But as a family we have had 3 washing machines and 2 tumble dryers in 10 years. A new fridge. A large tv died and was unrepairable. 2 vacuum cleaners. A steam cleaner. Half a dozen kettles. A couple of toasters. 2 microwaves.

All will have ended up in some way in landfill. Shameful really.

Vitalogy I agree it is awful. But is see a certain amount of truth in it. What species does the most harm to the planet? Are nature on this earth is very parasitic. Thanks for the artical, it gives hope that we can change. But you must admit it's an uphill struggle? There is still huge population unsustainable population growth in other areas of the world and to be fair (although a step in the right direction) Bangladesh still has very high birth rates. It is a fair point that in the western world we use more resources but also remember that many in the less developed world do migrate to place that have more resources for their comsumption. Our Western consumption is part of the problem and so is global over population. There maybe be whole populations of people who do not consume as much but this is more down to lack of ability to consume rather than deliberately not consuming. If we saw a better global distribution of wealth and resources we would still see the consumption, if not more. Overpopulation in general is problem.

As a teacher, I'm constantly amazed my how much stuff people buy their kids and how much money they spend at Christmas, birthday etc. If you've that much spare cash that you can buy your child the latest iPhone as just one of their presents, consider giving some to charity instead of consuming more and more,..

I reading about this recently, information on flushing the toilet with rainwater, aprox 25% of clean water is just flushed away. People on water meters would save the cost of installation in no time.

Sorry, here's the link:

www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/water/flush-toilet-with-rain-water/

1DAD overpopulation is my big thing and I rant daily about in real life
(My DC are adopted)

But please be careful not to put posters off doing good things, this is a great thread so far.

We don't have a tree but my parents have used the same artificial tree for about 32 years now I think.

Long time lurker... and coming on this thread to say that (unlike so many of you here that are living so thoughtfully) I am guilty of so much of this stuff. And it has really made me think.... so much plastic everywhere (obsessed with cosmetics) and guilty of buying lunch in packaging every day. Even just silly stuff like buying pomegranate seeds in a plastic pot rather than buying the fruit to avoid the hassle of preparing... has really got me thinking now! But this has been a real eye opener and will be taking all of this stuff on board and committing to live in a better way.

Yes, Peanut abd Occam, overpopulation is a problem and probably the worst one

Yes, and hi @Nyx1 from the other thread we discussed overpopulation on together.

On a slightly more provocative note, I do wish that people would understand there's no green-living 'redemption' to be had from having 3 or 4 kids (or more). All you could really do is hope that they don't produce too many children themselves.

PS people seem to have bad luck with kettles, mine have lasted years but I am now wondering if it's better to just boil water on the hob

Me too. And all the threads about buying my children eleventy million Christmas presents "because I work hard and can damn well afford it" make me feel queasy.
Why not just throw up your hands and say "I'm an obnoxious arsehole who cares more for material possessions than humanity itself".

1DAD2KIDS I'll agree to disagree.
I have faith that we can change things for the better, most people would rather do good.

Law of attraction and all that. Stay positive people!

Great thread. I've been trying to reduce our use of plastics (especially single-use plastics) and move towards a more minimalist/zero waste lifestyle for a while now. Things we've been doing include:

• buying fruit and veg loose or putting them in reusable mesh bags

• using a reusable coffee cup (Costa, Starbucks, Pret and a few other chains give you 25p off if you take your own cup)

• taking reusable water bottles everywhere

• I've gone from vegetarian to vegan; DH and the DC eat very little meat

• buying dairy milk and yogurt in glass bottles and jars; I make my own soya milk

• switching to reusable sanpro

• replacing plastic food storage with glass storage containers and jars (I mainly reuse old food jars)

• using reusable food wrap, snack packs and paper sandwich gags instead of cling film

• buying as much as possible from a small independent shop that sells only regional produce and sells almost all of its fruit and veg loose

• using washable make-up remover pads rather than cotton wool

• cycling rather than driving whenever possible; we'd like our next car to be an electric one

• I'm planning on switching to soap as soon as I've used up my huge stash of shower gels

This woman is very inspiring, although I can't imagine us getting anywhere near producing the amount of waste (one small jar per year!) that she and her family do.

Cripesalive I'm still very guilty and complicit. I see the problems but I still very much participate like everyone else. Maybe that makes me worse than people who don't see the problems. I have sadly (and mybown shame) never been a eco warrior in the household and at the shops. I live the same comfortable life as everyone filling my boots on all the cheep disposable things life has to offer. Like I don't see my self ever replacing disposable nappies and wet wipes. They make my life so much easier. But it is starting to get me down. Things like all the Christmas presents people buy you but are crap (doesn't help that I'm a sentimental horder). Like I got given once this novelty comical racing car driver figure that made noises when you pressed the buttons. What was I going to do with that? It made me feel guilty to bin it but who else would want it? I try very hard at Christmas to not buy people things that just take up space. I try to get them things they'll genuinely use, or experiance or food gifts.

Having said that I my bit and bit more than ever before but it's still not enough.

I have faith that we can change things for the better, most people would rather do good.

I admire your optimism, but disagree.

The vast majority of the people on the planet are too poor to really give a shit about how they can improve things. Of the rest, most can't be bothered.

Stuff needs to be way more expensive.